James Henry Clayton born 26 Sept 1851 Harrow On the Hill

[carol8353]

Well done Liz,the search is certainly moving nearer to Harrow isn't it?

Carol

[lizdb]

But I cant find a birth for young James

Only possible is a plain James Clayton in Croydon in Oc/Nov/Dec 1852 - maybe she went back to family for actual birth even though they lived around Harrow on the Hill.
Pure specualtion.

Cant find her "hubby" James in 1851, or marriage - yet!

[cmclayton]

Thank you Carol and Liz,

I nearly cried when I read this, finding Kate in 1851 married is great.
I have tried for nearly eight years to find James Henry Clayton back in England,
and his parents.  Things have certainly moved forward, the most important thing
to me is that I could be a "Clayton"  James didn't change his surname when he
arrived in New Zealand.

Thanks heaps Christine M Clayton

[cmclayton]

Hi

Have found on FamilySearch.org the following:

Do not know if these could be her has from the census she is Katherine with a "K" not a "C"

Catherine Elizabeth Thomas
birth 29/4/1829 England
chr. 9/8/1829 Southwark Surrey
parents Thos Thomas and Mary Ann

(Note - Have just found a family member for the above Catherine, and she is in the 1841 census with parents and two sisters Martha and Louise.   I have a Catherine also in the 1841 census as a pupil
at school with her sister Ann, which I hope is her.)

Catherine Thomas
chr. 8/2/1829 Saint Saviour Southwark Surrey
parents James Beaumont Thomas and Elizabeth

Thanks Christine

[carol8353]

Chris,

I have to say I'm wary of these two at school in Fulham in 1841.
They both say they were born in the county of Middlesex.
Whereas the Kate and Ann we have found were born in Brixton Surrey(South of the river Thames)

Liz has found a POSSIBLE Katherine in 1851,as I found a POSSIBLE one in 1861.
Neither have any other people living with them to confirm without a doubt that they are the right people.

Don't worry at all about the name not being spelt correctly. My own name often isn't even today- I am Carol,but often get it spelt Carole.So you can imagine the problem our ancestors faced if they couldn't read or write.They would just accept the spelling was correct,as they didn't know if it was or not 
My best pal is Kathleen (Kathy) but she is often spelt Cathy.

Carol

[cmclayton]

Hi Carol and Liz,

Just to let you know that I have sent for the death certificate of Katherine Elizabeth Clayton,  there was a Louisa Lowe (housekeeper) living with Kate and Ann for years, so hoping she was still alive with a sound mind and his been an informat with this certificate.  Also have sent for Ann Bristow Thomas and Adey Bellamy Savory, hoping this will help with parents.

I do wonder if Kate Thomas and James Clayton ever did marry,  baby James may be a Thomas at birth and knowing his father was a Clayton has called himself this when he arrived in New Zealand.

I also have another family that when the husband is listed has married on the census with another wife and family, the first wife is listed as widowed.  Perhaps Kate has listed her self as widowed when James really did marry.

Just some ideas that I had.

Thanks heaps Christine

[carol8353]

Christine,

I think you're very brave sending for so many certs  I will keep my fingers crossed(and I know Liz will too) that you actually get some useful info from them.

Let us know what the certs tell you,and we'll take up the challenge again.

If James was illegitimate though, I fear you may never be able to trace his roots all the way back.His mothers surname Thomas,may well have Welsh connections.....there's hundreds and hundreds of Thomas's in Wales 

All the best

Carol

[cmclayton]

Good morning Carol and Liz

Have received the death certificate for "Katherine Elizabeth Clayton"

14th February 1915  4 Hurst Road
Katherine Elizabeth Clayton
female 86 years
Of independant means widow of James Clayton of independant means
Death - Influenza, bronchitis
Informant - G.E Murly - nephew

On one of the census there was a Hilda Hurly niece - correct spelling could be Murly.

Thanks Christine

[cmclayton]

Also have received marriage certificate for
"Adey Bellamy Savory and Ann Bristow Thomas"

25th June 1846 London
Fathers - Adey Bellamy Savory - Goldsmith
and Samuel Thomas - Merchant
Witness - Mary Savory, Samuel Thoams, ?(w).C Savory, ?(L) Savory and Emma L Thomas

On a marriage certificate, if the father was deceased would this be noted or not? just
was wondering if Samuel Thomas a witness is the father or brother to Ann.

Thanks heaps Christine