FRANCE: French connection

[silvery]

Bilston district comes under Wolverhamton 1837 - 1935 (Genuki registration districts)

Search 1850 September to December quarters.

one only, unfortunately numbers are missing.

Births Sep 1850   
Hughes    Sarah        Wolverhampton    17   *

checked previous quarter - it's still the only one.

It's worth considering that your Sarah may not have been registered.

[silvery]

I think the birth reg above may be for the third name on the list.  If you phone the local office, and  ask them for confirmation of the father's and mother's first names, they may tell you and then you will know whether to buy it or not.
 
West Midlands Birth indexes for the years: 1850

Surname   Forename(s)   Sub-District   Registers At   Reference

HUGHES   Samuel   Sedgley   Dudley Register Office    SEG/032/77
HUGHES   Sarah J   Sedgley   Dudley Register Office    SEG/032/267
HUGHES   Sarah   Dudley   Dudley Register Office    DUD/040/50
HUGHES   Sarah   Sedgley   Dudley Register Office    SEG/031/78

from westmidlandsbmd.

[RoDe]

Thanks for that which further confirms earlier information. When I first enquired on the FreeBMD site it cam up with 60 pages of Sarah Hughes', of which six were in Wolverhampton, in about the right age group. The 1891 census gave her age as 40 giving a birth year of 1851 give or take a year so the birth registered in September 1850 is almost certainly the one as the next Sarah Hughes registration is September 1853. As the page number isn't quoted in the FreeBMD record does that mean I won't be able to order a certificate through GRO? Might try Wolverhampton archives for her birth certificate or wait until 1st April when the GRO records go on line and see what that says. It's her mom, Mary J. born France 1821, that's going to be difficult to trace because of the need to know the region where she was actually born.

[RoDe]

Hi all

Have had this on the back burner for a while but would now hope to make further progress.  Have established that Mary Hughes' maiden name was Hill and have been looking for a marriage record to get her fathers name and occupation.  Have found the following entry on FreeBMD:-

Mary Hill  Marriage Dec 1849.  Wolverhampton.  Vol 17 Page 463

But can't find a matching entry for her husband Thomas Hughes only the following :-

Thomas Hughes Marriage Dec 1849.  Wolverhampton.  Vol 17 page 464

If the above entries are correct their respective ages at marriage would be Mary 23 and Thomas 25.  I have looked at the original entries and the page numbers are as above so there has not been a transcription error.

I believe, but correct me if I am wrong, that both partners should have exactly the same reference but is it possible that one entry could be on one page and the other on the one immediately following?  Any clarification gratefully appreciated
 

[silvery]

If you click on the page numbers on freebmd it will give you the names of all the people entered on that page in alphabetical order, and this will include the partner of the person searched for.  In the case of Mary Hill there is no Thomas Hughes on the page. 

[jorose]

It is possible a mistake was made in the composing of the GRO index, but in this case there seem to be the proper number of spouses on pages 463 and 464 - eight people are listed for each reference.

Perhaps their marriage is the one in Dudley in Dec 1849 quarter, Vol 18 page 444?  (Next district over - have a look at how close Dudley and Bilston are on the map).

[RoDe]

Thanks Silvery & Jorose.

I didn't realise that by clicking on the page number in FreeBMD that you could get a list of all names on that specific page.  I have been working with blinkers on in as much as because all of my Harris ancestors so far were born and lived in Bilston (Wolverhampton), that's where I was looking for members of the Hughes family. Have now found a Thomas Hughes and a Mary Hill with the same reference, Vol.18 page 444 registered at Dudley in Dec 1849. I assume at this stage it is the marriage I am looking for because I would think that the odds of there being two Thomas Hughes' and two Mary Hill's marrying each other is very remote. I previously didn't consider the possibility of Mary coming back from France and going to live in Dudley, possibly I suppose with parents at some time previous to marriage.

Thanks to all.

[RoDe]

This may be intended to make it clear that her father was English, although if she was French she would also technically have become a British subject upon marrying.

If her family were English, her birth could be recorded in several places:
She could conceivably have been registered with the local French authorities (civil registration, not christening), although I'm not sure how common this one was.
If the family were in a place like Paris, where there was an Anglican chapel (the British Embassy chapel), she could have been christened there.
They could have waited until they returned to England and then had the children born overseas all christened together.
She's born too early to be registered in the overseas (consular) registrations - they didn't start recording until 1847.
If her family were military she might be in the overseas military records, but I think she's in the wrong time period for there to be much of a British presence in France.
She might just have been missed - it happened.


I would recommend that you find or get someone to find for you the family in 1851, locate the birth record of daughter Sarah and then the marriage of Thomas Hughes and Mary (nee ). You may be able to, from the info on the marriage certificate, find her with her family in 1841 or other members of the family in the Bilston area in 1851 onwards. The father's occupation might clue you into why they were in France or one of her siblings might list the exact town they were born in in censuses.

HI Jorose
I now have a copy of Mary Hughes' (nee Hill) wedding certificate which confirms she married in Dudley. Her father is shown as Charles Hill, occupation Miner. So what was a miner doing in France in 1826 the year of Mary's birth. Seems an unlikely occupation to necessitate going there.  So, it doesn't take me any further forward so back to the drawing board.
Thanks a lot.

[jorose]

!!!
1861 census,
RG9/2004, 74/13
7 Bilston Street Court C(?), Bilston
Charles Hill, 59, iron moulder, b. Butterley Derbyshire
Sarah, 56, wife, b. Staffordshire West?
Thomas, 19, son, Pudler, b. Bilston
John Hughes, 8, grandson, b. Bilston
Samuel Shipley, 18, lodger, forgeman, b. Newton

The IGI shows a number of children christened in Bilston to this family.

In 1841:
HO 107/1001/2 folio 8 page 7
Hall Fields, Bilston, Wolverhampton
Charles Hill, 39, Iron Lab, b. out of county
Sarah, 37, b. in county
Elizabeth, 13, b. out of country ("France" written next to that?)
Charles, 10, b. out of county ('dittoed' for France?)
John, 7, b. in county
Henry, 5, b. in county
Willm, 2, b. in county

I think in 1871 Sarah might be widowed, living in Walsall with a widowed sister Hannah Adams.  Place of birth looks like Westbromich. In 1881 she's living with her widowed daughter, Sarah Jones.

Still trying to find what happened to the children Charles and Elizabeth, who may be clues to where in France the family were. I don't have access to the 1851 census, which would help a lot.