mullen of kilmarnock,

[robmullen]

Hi ive just started doin our family tree,and icannot find my ggrandfather Francis Mullen, i know he was married in 1908 to Rose Mcmahon, because on my grandfathers birth certificate says parents..i know he was a coal merchant in kilmarnock.. and was born around 1887 and died in kilmarnock in 1960... other than that im lost, ive tried scotlandspeople.org my grandfathers name was John Mcmahon Mullen born 1914 and died in 1979 in kilmarnock..if any one could help ide be eternaly gratefull, many thanks. Rob Mullen

[AMBLY]

Hi Rob

A warm Welcome to Rootschat

Scotland People has 1 possible marriage of a Rose McMAHON to fit:

MARRIAGE 1908 Kilmarnock Ayr - of Rose McMAHON to a Francis.
The male surname is not coming up as MULLEN though.
It's coming up as being:  McMILLAN

What do you know of Rose's parents (to match to any marriage cert naming her parents)?

May be he is one (or both)  of the following.....not sure......

1891: 19 Aitkenhead Avenue, Bothwell, Lanarkshire
Ref: Parish 625/1 , ED 8, Pg 16
Head: Francis MULLEN 32, C. Weaver, b New Monkland Lanarkshire
Wife: Mary Ann MULLEN 33. b Ayrshire
Dau: Maggie MULLEN 9, Scholar, b Bothwell
Dau: Helen MULLEN 7, Scholar, b Bothwell
Dau: Mary Ann MULLEN 6, Scholar, b Bothwell
Dau: Lizzie MULLEN 3, b Bothwell
Son: Francis MULLEN 2, b Bothwell
Son: James MULLEN 10 months, b Bothwell
Relative: John BOYLE 19, Weaver, b Ayrshire

1901: 22 Fore Street, Kilmarnock Ayrshire
Ref: Parish: 597 . ED 19, pg 16
Head: George McCART 34, Genl Labourer, b Ireland
Wife: Annie McCART 44, b Bothwell Renfrew (sic)
Son: George McCART 2, b Kilmarnock
Step-Dau: Ellen McMILLAN 13, b Longrmur, Renfrew
Step-Son: Francis McMILAN 14, Genl Labourer, b Bothwell, Renfrew
Step-Son: James McMILLAN 10, b Kilmarnock

Depending on that marriage (which I do think will be your couple)  you might also want to look at the actual census images if it looks like either of these Census is him!

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

The family of  1891 above  is still in Bothwell in 1901 sans the father. as MULLIN.

Cheers
AMBLY

[robmullen]

Hi thanks for a quick reply... Rose mcmahon im sure she was born around 1886 and died in 1961..if ive got it right , i got off scotlands people.her parents are a John Mcmahon and mother Rose Mcmahon M.S Mcgraw. i have a certificate of thomas mcmahon mullen born and died 1923. with francis and rose on, and my grandfathers birth certificate i just recieved from general registrar, with there names and marriage date on. hope this helps. Rob

Image Removed.  It is a breach of copyright to post complete bmd certificates.  Only small portions may be posted for clarification.

[AMBLY]

Hi Rob

Because the only marriage that seems to fit apparently has a surname McMILLAN  - you might be best getting the Death cert of Francis MULLEN next - looks like it is on SP.

Only one Francis MULLEN died between 1958 and 1965 in Kilmarnock Ayr - and it was in 1960 - age 73 years

This would give his parents names (hopefully)!

Do you know the names of all Rose and Francis' children in order of birth?

This looks like Rose 's family:

1901: 2 Richardland Rd, Kilmarnock Ayrshire
Ref: Parish 597, ED 14a, pg 2
Head: John McMAHON 56?, Coal Miner, b Stewarton, Ayrshire
Wife: Rose mcMAHON 55. b Ireland
Dau: Rose McMAHON 14, Scholar, b Kilmarnock

1891: 27 Fore St, Kilmarnock Ayrshire
Ref: Parish 597, ED 19, pg 24
Head: John McMAHON 47, Coal Miner, b Stewarton Ayr
Wife: Rose 46, b Ireland
SonL Hugh 21, Coal Miner,
Son: Thomas 17, Coal Miner,
Dau: Jane 15, Millworker Weaver
Dau: Ann 8, Scholar,
Dau: Rose 5, Scholar
ALL children born Kilmarnock

1881: 3 Bond Lane, Kilmarnock Ayrshire
Ref: Parish 597, ED 19, pg 41
Head: John McMAHON 36, Coal Miner, b Stewarton Ayrshire
Wife: Rose 35, b Ireland
Son: Hugh 10, Scholar,
Son: Thomas 6, Scholar,
Dau: Jane 4,
SonL James 2,
Son:  John 3 months,
ALL children born Kilmarnock

1871: 2 College Wynd, Kilmarnock Ayrshire
Ref: Parish 597, ED 12, pg 7
Head: John McMAHON 26, Coal Miner, b Stewarton Ayr
Wife: Rose,   26, Bonnett Worker, b Arkeen?  Co. Down  Ireland
Son: Hugh , 5 mths, b Kilmarnock
Mother-In-Law: Ann McGRAW 62, b Ireland, Lisborn CO Down
(this is a lucky lucky Census    - places of birth in Ireland!)

Cheers 
AMBLY

[robmullen]

HI again many thanks, yeah i have sent for francis's death certificate, thought it would have arrived with my grandfathers today. hopefully this week though, as soon as i get it, i will let you know what i find out..thank you so much for your kind help...Rob. on another note, on my fathers mothers side. my great grand father Robert mcallister from cumnock born 1861 died 1915, was killed by a train in kilmarnock any ideas on how i can find out more on this.. i have his death certificate..which says he died from shock..i think i would have aswell hee hee.. injuries were crushed legs, how would i go about getting newspaper or info on this...

[robmullen]

Hi Ambly, just looked through my folders, and rang my aunt, to see what children Francis and Rose had. as far as she knows there was her father john mcmahon mullen.1914. then a Francis but dosent know when he was born. Mary? maybes few more shes unsure. but Thomas was born in 1922 and died in 1923... yours Rob

[robmullen]

Hi i got the death certificate today of Francis,he died 2nd jan 1960 aged 73,locking the gates to rugby park kilmarnock, after the match, he lived in welbeck street, kilmarnock and was married to Rose Mcmahon, his parents were John Mullen coal miner, and Ann Fisher. Now i need help to find them please, again thanks to all for your time and effort in helping me, Rob

[AMBLY]

Hi Rob!

Good on the postie     On the death certificate what did it say about his mother - did it say Ann MULLEN M.S. FISHER? Was either parent noted as deceased?

Had a look on the Census 1891 and 1901 and still - nothing coming up that has a Francis MULLEN to these parents....I think it may prove a bit more involved, and I think that the 1901 Census for the McCART / McMILLAN family may be your Francis and his mother.....

The only likely looking marriage for Francis in  Kilmarnock 1908 is the one of a Rose McMAHON to a Francis McMILLAN.

SP has a marriage:
George McCART married Ann FISHER 1897 Kilmarnock Ayr
This seems too much if a co-incidence - though stranger things have happened!

There is also a marriage : John MULLEN married Ann FISHER 1882 Midlothian
Less sure about this one?

A possible for Ann FISHER (based on the 1901 Census of Ann McCART who is possibly nee FISHER :-

1851: Nutshill (Village) , Paisley Abbey, Renfrewshire,
Head: Peter FISHER 39, Coal Labourer, b Ireland
Wife: Catherine FISHER 32, b Ireland
Son: John FISHER 12, Calico Printer's Assistant, b Ireland
Son: William FISHER 12, Calico Printer's Assistant, b Ireland
Son: Matthew FISHER 9, b Ireland
Son: Peter FISHER 8, b Ireland
Son: Thomas FISHER 2, b Nutshill, Renfrewshire
Lodger: Catherine DEALER 43, Hawker Soft Goods, b Ireland

1861: Nr 35, Bothwell Lanarkshire
Ref: 625/1 , ED 5, pg 9
Head: Patrick FISHER 46, Pitheadman, b Ireland
Wife: Catherine FISHER 46, b Ireland
Son: Matthew FISHER 18, Coal Miner, b Ireland
Son: Patrick FISHER 17, Coal Miner, b Ireland
Son: Thomas FISHER 12, b Paisley, Renfrew
Dau: Minnie FISHER 8, Paisley, Renfrew
Dau: Ann FISHER 5, b Paisley, Renfrew

Noting on the 1901 McCART / McMILLAN - the place of birth for Ann McCART  was given as "Bothwell.  Renfrew" - a mixture of the above 1861 perhaps??. 
Peter and Patrick are interchangeable - especially where the place of birth is Ireland - Patrick often becoming Peter when in Scots records.

I guess, if I were a betting lass, I'd take a punt on the McMAHON / McMILLAN marriage!?

Cheers
AMBLY