mullen of kilmarnock,

[robmullen]

Cheers for this Ambly.. on cerificate it stated ann mullen m.s fisher. and and both deceased, it sounds like its gettin complicated abit... wonder if i could send for johns certificate.?

[robmullen]

Hi Ambly me again, i found something on ann fisher. i noticed on francis;s death certificate he lived at 13 Welbeck street, and found this census for ann fisher ,1891 Scotland Census 1891 Scotland Census
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i noticed its the same street do you think these could be relations of sorts?..
 
 
 

[AMBLY]

Hi Rob 

Well it could be a relation of some sort - but it may just be one of those co-incidences of place and name. I also found  one of the names (a FISHER I think ) Aitkenhead Avenue, but it didn't seem right.......at least not at this stage.

And I just noticed - and this could  be more than a co-incidemce - that Rose McMAHON's family in 1891 are at 27 Fore Street, Kilmarnock....... In 1901, the McCART/McMILLAN family is at 22 Fore Street Kilmarnock ..... !

Which John's cert are you thinking of sending for? Your Grandads?

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

Hi again Rob

Just been quizzing SP again... and If the McMILLAN / McCART Family is not yours - I'll eat my hat !

Scotlands People has a death:

Ann McCART  - other surnames: MULLIN FISHER
Died Kilmarnock Ayrshire in 1908 age 50

This has to be your Francis' mother surely     - and because of that 1901 Census, where your Francis (99.99% sure it's him") is down as McMILLAN, I'd have no hesitation now about the McMILLAN/McMAHON marriage.

If you wanted to get  certificates to advance the family back and sort out where/how  the McMILLAN came into it  - if it were me I'd next get:
McMILLAN / McMAHON marriage
McCART / FISHER marriage
McCART (MULLIN FISHER) death

I suppose there is slight chance that on both Francis' marriage and that 1901 Census where he is McMILLAN (99.99% sure  )  - that the name is actually McMULLEN and has been mistranscribed - on both records?

Cheers 
AMBLY

[robmullen]

Hi Ambley, boy you bin busy..the john i was hoping to go and get was anns husband but after reading your last posting. think i will try down this avenue.i did read some were. that mcmullens when they moved from scotland to ireland, they dropped the mc, and became just mullen,mullin,mullan etc wonder if this is something simular...sure looks like it, thank you so much again for your help in aiding me..going to try today on the mcmillan/mcmahon marraige,  see what that turns up..

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[robmullen]

Hi again Ambly, ive just looked at that marriage on sp, mcmahon and mcmillan looks like rose and francis.. but francis's father is a robert on there. but on death certificate its a john? im gettin confused now lol..HELPPPPPPPPPPPPP oh and another strange and weird coincidence is francis on sp, lived at robertson place... on my grandfathers birth certificate he was born same place?22 robertson place..was my family dodging bailifs you think lol name changing hee hee

[AMBLY]

Hi Rob!

Another piece of the puzzle  ...I fully expected the marriage certificate NOT to state Francis' father as John MULLEN/MULLIN.  What you now have is the name of the man behind the McMILLAN part  (I assume his father is given as Robert McMILLAN!?).  Now just got to figure out who he was and where he fits in...ie: was he Ann's first husband? 2nd? Or was she ever married to him?

Some Questions:

Does the date of the marriage McMILLAN / McMAHON match the date given on the birth certificate of Grandad John  (which you posted first off on this topic)?

What occupation did it give for Robert and was he stated as deceased?

Who were the witness to that marriage?

Do Rose's parents on the certificate do tie up as John McMAHON and Rose McGRAW?

Did the marriage address say 22 Robertson or just Robertson - nevertheless, considering all the above, I'd say the odds on this marriage NOT being your Francis are extremley slim and the fact your Grandad John was later born on the same street is in this case, unlikely to be co-incidental.
Families did move often in those days - sometimes to a different house on the same street - and indeed sometimes to dodge the rent-man In this case, I don't think it's a name-change per se; I think the answer will lie on where we can fit Robert in, and finding Francis birth certifitcate. One scenario is that he born to Ann and Robert McMILLAN but from a young age, the only father he ever knew was John MULLEN. 

I also note - son John gave the information for Francis' death - it's very possible your Grandad  John never ever knew of Robert McMILLAN or that Francis was ever anything else other than MULLIN.

So.....next step :

One one hand: In the McCART marriage, the one person who knew best was present - Ann. It may state she was nee FISHER formerley MULLEN and if she was ever married to McMILLAN, his name too.

On the other hand: Ann's death : we already know MULLIN and FISHER are indexed as other names she was know as - the full entry may or may not say McMILLAN aswell - if her son Francis or her husband McCART advised of the death it's possible, since we know they both must have known of McMILLAN....but then maybe neither was the informant.....

If it were me. I'd get both    but if I had to choose..maybe the marriage first?

This is a very intriguing topic  Looking forward to seeing what happens next!

Cheers
AMBLY

[robmullen]

Hi Ambly it gets deeper lol. ive got anns death certificate if you would like acopy, i think robert was her 1st husband then there was a james mclaughlin the george mccart, she died of a fractured skull by all accounts. just found all this today..oh i have francis's marraige aswell
should i post on here or send straight to you?

[robmullen]

Hope these make more sense to, than they do me Ambly?.