Jean/Janet (Wilkie) Reid

[tommacgregor]

Hello Sancti and Monica,

I have been giving quite a bit of thought to my Great-Grandfather, Samuel Livingstone's wife whom the family called Jennie Reid. I have a photograph of them, taken by a photographer's in Cowdenbeath with their sons, William, David and James Livingstone as well as their daughter, Maggie.

Now, I certainly know that Samuel Livingstone was born at St Ninians, Stirlingshire, but don't know much about Jennie Reids birthplace. What I do know is that Samuel and Jennie married on 27th November, 1882.

I would hate like Hell to see you and Monica, whom I regard as good friends, doing an awful lot of work but based on false leads. I wouldn't be ale to live with myself, because I'm that kind of guy. If Jennie Reid's father was indeed, David Teviotdale Reid, (and I'm sure the records show that he was), then he was born at Inverkeithing and died in January, 1885 at Halbeath, near Cowdenbeah, where my mother grew up. His wife, Margaret McGreechan also died at Cowdenbeath.

Pushing back a little it, we find that David Teviotdale Reid's father was William Reid and that he was born, married and died in Inverkeithing, and so everything looks perfectly plausible. It makes a lot of sense to me to believe that William married a lassie fom the surrounding area, and that appears to be so since my notes states that he married a Jean (Janet) Wilkie from "just down the road" at Aberdour.

Now it starts to get interesting. I am "reasonably" sure that Jeam's Mum and Dad were David Wilkie and Anne (Annie) Brown. The details of their family appear to bear that out:

Anne Wilkie born 30th October, 1787 at Aberdour, David born 4th November, 1789, Robert born 11th October, 1791, Davi born 29th June, 1793, Hugh born 30h Novemer, 1795, David born 30th October, 1799, Margaret born 15th January, 1802, James born 9th September, 1803, Jean born 22nd March, 1805 at Aberdour, William born 15th August, 1807, Mary born 14th April, 1809 and John born 10th August, 1812.

The strange thing is, I can't find a record of David Wilkie and Anne Browns marriage, although, I would imagine that it took place sometime around 1786/87.

Getting back to William Reid's parents, (that's the William Reid who was born at Inverkeithing, Fife in April, 1785), I can quite believe that his Mum came from just up the coast at Largo and that would explain where William's son, David, got his middle name Teviotdale from. His Mum would have been Agnes (commonly called Nancy) Teviotdale whom I believe was the daughter of Alexander Teviotdale and Margaret Kirk. That couple didn't originate from far afield, to the best of my knowledge, they were both born in Largo. Alexander married Margaret aound February, 1756.

If I take a long, cool look at David Wilkie, the husband of Anne Brown and father of all those kids, then I believe that he too was a local lad, born and bred in Dalgety - not far from Dunfermline, Aberdour and Largo. The fly in the ointment to me, is the husband of Agnes (Nancy) Teviotdale. Was he really the William Reid  who married at the Canongate in Edinburgh and then crossed the Firth of Forth and settled down with his Fife born wife, Agnes at Inverkeithing. Why not his hometown of Edinburgh or Agnes' hometown of Largo? Possibly because Inverkeithing was where he employment was available!

I hope that you wont think that I'm adding to the confusion, because, believe me, using the meagre resources that I have, it's a pretty tough slog as you can imagine. One wonders whether or not descendants of the Reids living around Inverkeithing could throw a light on the matter.

Warm regards,


Tom.

[sancti]

Unfortunately there are no concrete leads to Jean Wilkie's parents and I could throw in another few contenders with the Euphemia link.

02/12/1805 WILKIE ALEXANDER married EUPHEMIA BROWN/FR274 577 M Collace /PERTH

08/02/1793 WILKIE DAVID married EUPHAN BRODIE/ M Perth /PERTH

05/03/1808 WILKIE DAVID married EUPHEMIA WILKIE/FR596 M Scoonie (Fife) /FIFE

23/07/1798 WILKIE JAMES married EUPHAN HAY/FR4404 M Canongate  EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN



There is one possible birth for the last couple


18/08/1799 WILKIE JANET born to JAMES WILKIE/EUPHEN HAY FR3003 F Inveresk and Musselburgh /MIDLOTHIAN

[tommacgregor]

Hello Sancti and Monica,

It seems like an awful long time since Wednesday, 20th February, '08 when you were both toiling away in freezing Britain. At that time you were both doing a terrific job in helping me out with my Great Grandfather, Samuel Livingstone's wife, Jane (Jennie) Reid whose grandmother was Janet or (Jeannie) Wilkie.

At that time we had to pull up stakes because of the lack of information, but, that didn't mean that the matter was forgotten. You commented on the fact that William Reid's wife, Janet Wilkie didn't appear on the 1841 Census, Monica. Had she, in fact, died just before the Census was taken?

Would you believe that I've come across a Janet REID, the wife of William REID who was residing at Rolland Street, Dunfermline, when she died on 22nd November, 1840 at the early age of 37.

Naturally enough, I'm quite excited about this and simply had to pass it on to you as quickly as possible because of the great kindness that you showed me on this branch of my family. Now, I'm still examining the source of the information, but it seems to be perfectly acceptable, and, of course I will disclose it to you.

Hope you're keeping well, Monica.

My very best wishes to you and yours,


Tom.

[tommacgregor]

Hi Sancti & Monica,

I had another look at the Janet Wilkie death and noted the slight discrepancy in her birthdate, i.e. around 1803 as opposed to the 22nd March, 1805 that I have for Janet when she was born in Aberdour on the Firth of Forth. Given the state of the records pre-1855, I don't believe that's too bad and it certainly narrows down the search.

That appears to fit in quite well with Janet's parents being David Wilkie and Anne Brown. If that is correct, then David Wilkie's parents would have been John Wilkie and Janet Stivinson (Stevenson) who married on the 13th October, 1769 at Dalgety. The records that I see show twins being born on the 15th June, 1786 - David Wilkie and Robert Wilkie on the 15th June, 1786 at Dalgety.

I have looked at a number of other options, but certainly can't get as close a fit. I would like to hear your thoughts on it.

Best wishes to you and yours,


Tom.

[JAP]

Hello sancti,

I see that you initiated this thread with a query relating to the possible death of Janet (WILKIE) REID - so you might be interested in a couple of thoughts I've had.

It's not clear where the record of a Janet, the wife of William REID, who was residing at Rolland Street, Dunfermline and died 22 Nov 1840 is to be found nor whether it mentions her maiden surname.
(See also http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,273960.msg2009266.html#msg2009266 )

If it does, and if that m.s. is WILKIE, then stop reading now and forget all about my thoughts      

But if it doesn't, then it would seem to be prudent to rule out any other possibilities for the Janet of Rolland Street, Dunfermline who d 1840 - especially given that the William & Jean/Janet (WILKIE) REID family seems to have been based in Inverkeithing.

For instance, is there an appropriate marriage for an alternative William REID & a Janet?  Is there an appropriate William REID (and family?) in the 1841 census (or later censuses) - perhaps even in Rolland St, Dunfermline?  Any MIs?

I notice that the IGI has the marriage of a William REID & a Janet REID 15 Dec 1838, Dunfermline.  And children to them in Dunfermline - Rachel b 5 Nov 1839, and George b 5 Nov 1840.

The IGI also has the birth of a likely Janet REID (given the name of her first daughter) - Janet REID bap 17 Apr 1803 Dunfermline, parents Henry REID & Rachel DEWAR.

Regards,

JAP
PS: I've found the following which could be relevant.  It's at:
http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/read/SCT-FIFE/2001-03/0985072854
It lists some 1841 Dunfermline census results for REID/REED/READ (and FOTHERINGHAM).
It's a bit hard to sort through but there seem to be the following:
1 Roland St, Dunfermline.
All born in Fife
William REID 40 Linen Weaver
Rachel REID 1
George REID 7 months
As only REIDs are listed in the source email, this might not be the full census entry for that address.
Unfortunately, the 1841 does not list marital status (or relationships).

Incidentally, at 2 Roland St, Dunfermline is another REID family, all born Fife:
Allan 27, James 25 (both nailers), Janet 34, David 6, Mary 4 and James 1.

You'll remember that, in 1841, William REID (presumed widower of Jean/Janet WILKIE) was listed in High St, Inverkeithing, age 45, a Linen Hand Loom Weaver, born outside the census county, with Euphemia REID 25 and David Reid 2(?), both born Fife

[tommacgregor]

Hi Sancti & Monica,

As we discussed some time ago, my great-grandfather's wife, Jane, (or Jennie) REID was the grand-daughter of William REID and Janet WILKIE. At the time that we were working together on this part of my family, we had quite a job in tracking down various members.

I have never ceased to try and unravel some of the notes that I made at the time, but, one must remember that I didn't register with RootsChat until December, 2007, some considerable time after we began communicating by private e-mail, Sancti.

I have mentioned that I believe that Janet Wilkie's parents were David Wilkie and Anna Brown, but I wanted to see much more conclusive proof of that. Now, I am well aware that Anna Brown, the wife of David Wilkie, (a labourer) died on the 7th January, 1826 and was buried on the 10th of that month aged 58. That would mean that her date of birth would have been around 1768. She had been living at  Aberdour West at the time of her death. The names, the dates and the locations all appeared to look quite reasonable, but I wanted to look at other things, such as naming patterns.

When I looked at the children of David Wilkie and Anna Brown, I noted that their eldest daughter had been named Ann (or Anna), and I considered the possibility that she had been named after her maternal grandmother, Anna ANDERSON, who had married Robert BROWN at Aberdour in November, 1762. I managed to get that information from an extracted record.

As I said above, Anna Brown's birth date would have been around 1768. Well, when I took a look at what S.P. had to say, they couldn't have been much closer, i.e. 10th July, 1767 at Aberdour.

I did a quick search for a David Wilkie, the husband of Anna Brown, who would fit into the frame, so to speak. There is indeed a David Wilkie who died on the 5th December, 1847 and was buried on he 8th of that month. Importantly, he was said to have been aged 81 at the time of his death, thus making his birthdate around 1766. That led me to and extracted birth record for a David WILKIE of 3rd May, 1766, christening date of 9th May, 1766 at Aberdour. Again though, I wanted to be as sure as possible that I wasn't going off at a tangent and so looked at the parents of this particular David WILKIE, born at Aberdour. Answer? Parents were John WILKIE and Isabell COLLIER.

Going back to the children of David WILKIE and Anna BROWN, we can note that their eldest son was named John and that the second eldest daughter was named Isabella, and, they were born at Aberdour.

So, Sancti & Monica, as you can see, the mist appears to moving away, at long last, and this part of my Family Tree, looks a bit stronger than it did a few months ago.

I am now able to connect all of the above to other individuals on my personal family records, and will discuss this with you soon.

My best wishes to you and yours,


Tom.

[JAP]

Hi All,

Just to clarify my post at reply #22 above.

Tom, you expressed your excitement - 2 posts at #20 and #21 above, and a post on the 'REIDS of Inverkeithing' thread - about your find of a death which you thought was (or was very likely to be) Janet/Jean WILKIE (the subject of this thread), wife of William REID.

However, the location (Dunfermline) didn't seem quite to ring true to me.

So I took the time to research whether the death might refer to a different Janet, wife of a different William REID (all being quite common names).

I did this in order to save anyone from wasting time following up what might be a red herring. 

And it does seem likely - especially given the street address - that the death record refers to a Janet REID (m.s. same as married surname), wife of a Dunfermline William REID.

I trust this has been of help to everyone. 

Regards,

JAP

[sancti]

Tom, personally I would like more concrete links to the individuals you mention and I would put them in the possible category rather than the probable one.

The record that JAP has found would tend to thicken that mist again

[tommacgregor]

Hi Sancti,

No, the death details of Janet REID aren't part of that Scot's mist that we've been trying to part for some considerable time now. I certainly don't want to see any sign of my posting being deleted due to Copyright infringements, but the entry can be found on the pre-1855 Death Index C.D. that I have.

It merely tells us that Janet REID, living at Rolland Street, Dunfermline died on 22nd November, 1840 and was buried on 26th November, 1840. It also tells us that she was aged 37 when she died. That would give a birth date of about 1803. It further states that she was the wife of William REID.

I have quite a lot of other information on this part of my Family Tree that should assist .

Best wishes to you and yours,


Tom.