NOY birth PR's..was this normal.

[ambers]

Hi,

I am trying to trace the parents of Elizabeth Noy b1814 (living at Lanyon), from her marriage certificate to William Reynolds, her fathers name was Henry Noy.

A lot of the PR's for the births of  Noy children (Cornwall on line) only have the father listed.
There are three children with the parents listed  as Henry and Mary, but I am wondering of the other five listed are her siblings.
 
Does anyone know what it means when only the fathers name is shown

Ambers

[Barbara F]

Hello Ambers

Which site are you using?  The IGI has an Eliza Noy bap Madron
31 July 1814 dau of Henry Noy and Mary.

Barbara

[ambers]

Hi Barbara,

I must need new glasses, as I checked the IGI and didn't see her

Many thanks.

Ambers

[krisesjoint]

Certainly plenty of Noy activity in Madron including

Henry NOY = Mary SAMPSON 5 Oct 1795

We find that a lot of Ministers only listed a Father, particularly in earlier registers. Once the forms arrive in 1813 we see both names. By the time of these baptisms it would have been pretty normal to list both parents names, but I guess it was up to the minister. It seems this minister chose to only list the fathers names. (Not just in the case of the baptisms listed to Henry Noy) Judging by the date of the marriage and the dates of these baptisms listing father Henry they do appear to be all the same family. I do not see another marriage with the husband as Henry Noy during this era.

The full transcript of Eliza's baptism listing res and occ is available in the OPC Database

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/moreinfo.php?ID=671915&dbtype=baptisms

Cheers Kris  

[ambers]

Hi Kriss,

Elizabeth Noy is my 5xgrandmother.

I got a bit confused when typing my lst post , (got the Builder in ) I had found Elizabeth b1814 using the Cornwall-OPC.

I was trying to prove that the other children I had found registered to Henry (only) were her siblings. Mary Batten married to Henry Noy in 1804,  so I doubted they had waited ten years to have Elizabeth...the the IGI only gave his name at the Baptisms, but I wanted to be sure I had the correct marriage then.

I have never got back this far before, so didn't understand why only the fathers name was given.

Thank you for explaining

Ambers

[krisesjoint]

OHOH Ambers, 

I am sorry I fear this is far from certain, You are talking about a marriage in 1804 in Sancreed where Henry Noy was described as a Tinner of Morvah. This 1814 baptism we see a Lab of Bone. I was looking at a marriage in Madron in 1795 to Mary Sampson. (No res or Occ listed)  We do see births in Madron and Penzance from that time onwards.

You speak of Elizabeth who married William Reynolds. This baptism we have is for Eliza Reynolds. We have some Penzance baptisms and some Madron ones. If you are sure your lass is from Madron, it probably doesnt make a lot of difference Penzance/Madron but there is no doubt we do have 2 couples. 1810 we have in Madron what appears to be a twin baptism. One of these Boys has the middle name Sampson so one would think Mary Sampson is probably the mother. Then we have a birth in 1811 in Penzance, next there is Eliza in 1814 Madron, father Lab of Bone, then  1817 Madron, father Lab of Lanyon and 1822 Madron, father Lab of Lanyon

1841 census we have a Henry 66 and Mary 65 at Lanyon in Madron (Lab). We also have a Mary Noy Ind in Market Jew St Madron Penzance aged 65, so if this is the second Henry Noys wife both women were much the same age so either may have been mother to the latter children and with the last 2 listing as of Lanyon I presume this is the couple at Lanyon in 1841 who are the parents of the last two children.

Bone is 1 mile East of Madron. Lanyon is 3 Miles WNW of Madron. There are several things which concern me. Is William Reynolds wife Eliza or Elizabeth? What does her marriage certificate list as the occ for her father Henry Noy? What was her residence listed as at the time of marriage?  Are you sure the mother is in fact Elizabeth Batten? I have to wonder if a Morvah tinner would have been likely to have later become a Madron Lab. I think we can safely say Mary Sampson had children until at least 1810. Were any of the later births listing fathers occ to Henry and Mary Batton or were they all to Henry and Mary Sampson and the tinner did not have children after the forms arrived in 1813? .................Kris 

[ambers]

Hi Kris,

Thank you for your help with this ,I wasn't sure if all the children belonged to one or two families either.

On the  Marriage Cert, she called herself Eliza Noy b1814 from Lanyon, her father to be a Labourer. On census years she is called Eliza, birthplace mostly  Madron, sometimes St Just.

I am not sure that her mother is Mary Batten, that was the only marriage that I found that appeared right   Mary Battens address at marriage in 1804 was Sancreed.
The births I found which I thought were Elizabeths Noy b1814 siblings were:

2/2/1817 Anne Noy, parents Henry and Mary. Reg/Dist Madron/ Lanyon, father Lab
28/4/1822 Martha  Noy     "            "                "                "                   "
in the 1861 census Martha is married to Amos Lava b1818 and Mary Noy M-I-L is living with them age 88

All the other were registered under fathers name only Penzance district.

11/1/1803 May,25/11/1804 Mary,, Henry 18/9/1808,, Honor 21/7/1811, Elizabeth,18/1/1807 and Edward Sampson and George Noy 18/3/1810.

Will be back soon to finsih off details I have missed...builders need me

Ambers

[krisesjoint]

Sorry Ambers - I am not happy that these births all belong to Henry and Mary Batton. I am convinced many if not all do belong to Henry and Mary Sampson. You are leaving out the births from 1796-1804 so there are more and those earlier ones must belong to this Noy/Sampson Union. Those twins one named Edward Sampson Noy to me, certainly indicate this birth is to the1795 marriage of Henry to Mary Sampson. OK Eliza was of Lanyon so the couple in 1841 are her parents but which couple are they? Since he is a labourer I am inclined to lean towards it being Henry and Mary Sampson at this stage but I just don't know.  To add the indecision in 1851 Mary's pob is Sancreed, 1861 it is Madron

Kris 

[ambers]

Hi Kris,

I am back...Builders  ....thanks once again for all the information and sharing your knowledge

The Mary Sampson in Market Dew Street 1841 is interesting because Eliza b1814 children both married from New Street, Penzance although they were born and lived in Tregeseal, St Just.  Market Dew Street, is just off New Street, Penzance, and I have always wondered why they married there.

It's confusing though with Eliza b1814 saying her father was a labourer on her marriage cert. She didn't name any of her children after any of the Baptisms names we have found, the closest being her  third daughter Mary Ann.

It is a problem with two Mary's roughly the same age, married to a Henry Noy, and both producing children over those year

Ambers