ancestors who don't want to be found

[floridagirl]

Can anyone help with this problem? I've been searching for my great grandfathers birth in 1866 probably in Liverpool. I've also looked at many years either side of this date.
I have a copy of his death certificate, he died in 1925 giving his age as 59. I know I've got the right certificate because of the address, and his daughter was the informant.
I have found him on the 1901 census with his wife and some children, but as I can find no trace of a marriage between them I can't get his fathers name to enable me to go back any further.
If anyone has had the same problem and managed to overcome it I would be really grateful for any help.
I've been searching for any info on him for years now.
I even wrote to Southampton Archives to see if there was any info registered there from when he was at sea, but they had nothing about him.
Sometimes I think he never existed, except that he fathered quite alot of children.
His name was Frederick Thomas and his wife was Sarah Ann Jane Thomas nee Jones.
Thanks in anticipation
Viv

[Trees]

What age and place of birth for him was on the 1901 census?
Trees

[silvery]

Yes as Trees says - what age etc on 1901 census, preferably the reference.

You can't always rely on death certs, although they can be extremely useful.  I have one where a daughter registered her mother's death, and the age was ten years out. 
It was the correct cert, as the daughter was married and I was able to then trace her (useful cert) and find her on census living next door to her mother, mistranscribed.

The heart sinks though - Thomas and Jones      But it is still possible -  need the places of birth.

[silvery]

Is this the reference

RG13/3496/62/18

[Annette7]

Quite possibly they didn't marry at all!   Lot's didn't.   However, going back on the census:
1901 (details you already have) in West Derby

1891 West Derby

Frederick Thomas    25      b. Liverpool
Sarah Thomas         25         ditto
George F. Thomas     7         ditto
Charles J. Thomas     6         ditto
William Thomas      9 mos     ditto
+ 4 Boarders

1881 West Derby

Elizabeth Thomas   lodger Widow   45     b. Liverpool
Frederick Thomas   lodger    son     15         ditto

(2 of many lodgers)

1871 West Derby

Abraham Thomas    Head    34     b. Liverpool
Elizabeth Thomas    wife      36        ditto
William Thomas       son       12         ditto
Abraham Thomas    son        9          ditto
Frederick Thomas    son        5          ditto
John Thomas           son        4          ditto
Edward Thomas       son        1          ditto

Looks a good scenario in absence of marriage.

Annette

[floridagirl]

Thanks to everyone for your responses.
In 1901 they were living at 8 Pembroke street, Court 4. The wife Sarah is listed as Jane but this was one of her Christian names and she was often known by this rather than Sarah.
Fred was 37
Jane (Sarah) was 29
Louisa was 10
Fred was 6
Thomas was 4
Mary was 2
I know these children are correct.
Louisa was to Sarahs first husband, James Powell.
I have Sarahs birth certificate from Oswestry and I know it's the right one as I had always been told that her father was the Town Crier, which it also says on her marriage certificate to James Powell.
Sarahs age is right as well.
I have gone back to the 1700's on Sarahs side of the family but can't get anything on Fred.
On the 1901 census it gives their birthplaces as Liverpool but there are often discrepancies over places of birth and ages, which is why I always check dates either side, I think she was still married to James Powell when she was living with Fred.
I know this might seem a bit garbled but this is what I have to go on.
Many thanks
Viv

[floridagirl]

Forgot to mention the Enumeration district is 2
Page 18 on Ancestry and RG 13/3416
Viv

[Salford Lass]

Hi

I have found two births which look likely to be one of yours.
Frederick Thomas Dec Q 1863 Liverpool 8b 161
and
Frederick J Thomas March Q 1866 Liverpool 8b 202

I have searched for a marriage and as you say there is nothing.

Debbie