Author Topic: Post traumatic stress - why ? MJ Cooney  (Read 2565 times)

Offline ursula glover

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Post traumatic stress - why ? MJ Cooney
« on: Sunday 09 March 08 09:34 GMT (UK) »
When my grandad finished his service, he was ill for a long time.  He could never earn a living and I am curious as to how his navy service had affected him.

My Mum said that as a stoker, he was in great danger when they came under fire and when they 'battened down the hatches', they knew that if the ship was hit, then the people left at the bottom of the ship were certainly going to die.

Looking at his record, my grandad seemed to have served his country with an excellent attitude, and he passed his engineers certificate, but there didn't seem to be any provision for when he came away from the navy, which was very common in those days. 

Does anyone have a similiar experience. 

Ursula
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Coll - Roscommon, Woolton, Liverpool
Cooney - Roscommon, Woolton
Corcoran - Woolton
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Offline meles

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Re: Post traumatic stress - why ? MJ Cooney
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 09 March 08 09:47 GMT (UK) »
It may have been poost traumatic stress, but working in the engine room with all that coal dust might have affected his lungs, and mafe him unfit for work. An uncle of mine was bedridden after the War from that. Did your grandfather have breathing problems, do you know?

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Online bearkat

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Re: Post traumatic stress - why ? MJ Cooney
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 09 March 08 09:48 GMT (UK) »
I don't know much about service records but....

He was 'invalided out'.  He served longer than just the length of WW1 so he may have been entitled to a pension.  Pension records may show his disability.

It's possible that his disability was nothing to do with the war.  TB was very common at the time.
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Offline ursula glover

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Re: Post traumatic stress - why ? MJ Cooney
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 09 March 08 10:07 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for your replies.  I never met my grandfather, he was hardly ever mentioned except for when I practically ambushed my mum into talking about him.  I presumed that he had died young, but I really don't know what happened to him.

I got the impression from my mum that he sort of confined himself to his room.  He  was a very clever man, a carpenter, one of his hobbies was making violins.  My mum hated the sound of the violin.   When I was asked to play violin at school, mum wouldn't let me and wouldn't give a reason.  That was when I started asking questions and it was like pulling teeth, because she didn't like talking about him, probably because it was very sad for her.

That was why I don't think it was a physical problem which affected him. 

I have never seen a photo of my grandad, he just seemed to disappear from the family, and researching my family tree has made me very curious about him.

Thanks for your replied - Ursula
McAuley - Waterfoot, Antrim, Woolton, Liverpool
Coll - Roscommon, Woolton, Liverpool
Cooney - Roscommon, Woolton
Corcoran - Woolton
McNicholas - Mayo, Greavey - Mayo
Seddon, Penketh, Getty - Woolton


Offline aghadowey

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Re: Post traumatic stress - why ? MJ Cooney
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 09 March 08 10:12 GMT (UK) »
As you have the names of the ships we served on along with dates you could try searching for their history (on a search engine like Google) to see if anything noteworthy happened during his time on any of them.
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Online Rena

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Re: Post traumatic stress - why ? MJ Cooney
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 09 March 08 12:21 GMT (UK) »
Now that I'm tracing my family tree I do so wish that back in 1950 I had asked my father a few questions when he told me as a consequence of WWI he had 3 shell shocked uncles in the asylum.  From my research I believe these could only have been his Leith, Edinburgh, maternal line who were a naval family.   Earlier that day our ex naval teacher had graphically told us of three experiences in WWII of encountering the enemy, of every man whether on watch or sleeping, rushing to their allotted alarm stations.  The ship had to change course to take evading action, the stokers had to make sure the boilers were stoked enough but had to make sure they didn't explode under too much pressurised heat. The ships were usually old and protested, so it was calling on everyone's skill to stay afloat & alive and a harrowing time especially with the boom, boom, boom and whistles of bombs & tornado near misses.   Maybe like our teacher your ancestor had to abandon ship.  One time he and the crew were able to climb back onto the ship,  one time a ship from the convoy picked up the sailors, but on one occasion our teacher had to stay alive for 5 days swimming in the ocean.

After WWI the Americans made a study of the type of people who would suffer PTSD and didn't call them up for WWII, eventually with the shortage of manpower they had to call up the men they had initially rejected.  A survey after WWII was a surprise because those most likely to suffer PTSD had the same percentages of sufferers in the battle theatre as those who had been classed as 'normal'.

Yes, Ursula it is still happening today.  Eight years after my friend's son came out of the army with an exemplary record with service in Bosnia, etc. his mother was at her wits end.   Even though his marriage had broken up, he couldn't hold down a civvy job, plus he had mood swings, the lad wouldn't accept there was something not right with him.  He reached rock bottom when a judge sectioned him under the Mental Health Act for being a 'nuisance' and was put in prison until a place became vacant in a psychiactric hospital.  In prison he would often find himself in solitary confinement for being 'naughty' when he complained he shouldn't be in there.  My friend doesn't have access to ex service personnel or the internet so I did the research and was shocked at how little the UK has been doing by way of provision of aftercare facilities & explicit warnings of what symptoms can arise in later years.   Her son was eventually admitted to the secure hospital and assessed.  She'd been protesting to these people that her son was ill for years without encouraging results, so I had to make sure she wrote down a coherent list of reasons why he was ill.  It hadn't dawned on her that he was suffering more and more from shell shock.  One month later his mother was allowed to speak to the phsychologist treating him.  After she listed 6 points, including how her son had spent a couple of years in a war zone 'Snipers Alley' and had witnessed his best friend's beheading by the gun mounted on his tank, the specialist apologised and said he'd been giving her son the wrong treatment as he hadn't known he'd been in the army.   Ursula, I didn't know her son was in trouble, every year I received a cheerful note from my old school pal inside an Xmas card but one year she mentioned her other 2 sons but not this son and I knew there was something wrong.  Subconsciously she must have been worried about a stigma for her hero boy.

I've come to look on shell shock/PTSD of the brain rather like a light bulb when there's a power surge, the safety element inside the bulb breaks and waves about,  Our brain has lots of connectors which can wither and die and re-grow incorrectly.   Some people suffer amnesia, the unlucky ones will relive their experiences, and over the years this gets worse;  the anxieties & horror, the flashbacks to burned bodies, the smells, the sight of their pals slipping under the ocean waves, etc. for the rest of their lives.  Such is the depression, some will take the 'easy' way out - they'll drown themselves, or even jump from a 'plane without opening their parachute, anything to stop the voices in the head, the flashbacks and they fear the nightmares when they're re-living fighting off the enemy - would they awake in the morning and find they've killed the person they love.

Rena
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Offline neil1821

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Re: Post traumatic stress - why ? MJ Cooney
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 09 March 08 13:05 GMT (UK) »
Quote
As you have the names of the ships we served on along with dates you could try searching for their history (on a search engine like Google) to see if anything noteworthy happened during his time on any of them.

Taking up Aghadowey's point, looks like he spent the whole war (pretty much) serving aboard HMS Orion.

Orion was in the 2nd Division, 2nd Battle Squadron at the battle of Jutland. Although Orion sustained no damage herself, that day may well have affected him greatly.
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Offline atom12

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Re: Post traumatic stress - why ? MJ Cooney
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 09 March 08 16:33 GMT (UK) »
Hi  :)

A very moving and poignant post.  Thank you Ursula for sharing your Grandad's record and story with us.

Also a very sad,  true story provided by Rena highlighting the complexities of PTSD and providing us with her perceptive example of how shell shock/PTSD appears to affects the brain.  :'(
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Offline forester

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Re: Post traumatic stress - why ? MJ Cooney
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 09 March 08 16:57 GMT (UK) »
Hello Ursula,

I'm no expert on Navy records, but from what I can make out, your Grandad was paid a gratuity when he was invalided out, (therefore no pension).

If you didn't know it, VIvid II refers to the base at Devonport. I would guess that List 29a for the period in which he was discharged may have more information, assuming it survives.

These links may help you:

National Archive search for Vivid records:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/02xh/

Halfway down this page are some pictures and a brief history of HMS Sandhurst:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/02xi/

Some discussion on Vivid II from another forum:
http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5695

Good Luck,
Phil
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