John WARDELL & Anne DONCKLEY- St.Albans

[BUZZ]

John Wardell and Anne Donckley were married at Abbey, St. Albans 22/10/1801. Would anyone know any more information on John such as when and where he was born and his parents' names?

I think Anne's parents were David Donkley (a slight change in spelling ) and Elizabeth Facer and Anne was born 6/12/1782 at Houghton Conquest. If anyone thinks I am wrong' please tell me.

I am decended from their son Thomas who was christened 26/5/1802 at Abbey.

He then married Elizabeth Mantle 4/2/1824 at St.George Hanover Sq. London. At this time his surname changes to the spelling of Wardle but I think it is him as everything adds up.

[JLo]

I tried to have a look for any info today, but not much luck.  The only extra info I found was that the Banns for their marriage were read on 14/10/1801, 11/10/1801 and 18/10/1801 and they both living in the parish.  On the marriage register John signed his name and Anne left her mark (X).  The witnesses were John Ward and Sarah Breach.  Unfortunately at that time fathers names were not recorded on the marriage register.
Sorry I couldn't be any more help 
JLo

[BUZZ]

Hi JLo

Thank you for the reply shame the Father's name's were not on the form perhaps the witness's are related.

Regards
Buzz

[Slinger]

Hi Buzz,
I'm new to this site, came across you via a google search on John Wardell - an ancestor of mine.
I realise this is an old posting and your research may have moved on, but these are my findings.

I have so far drawn a blank on John's origins, but do have an alternative candidate for Anne Donckley.
She appears in the PR for St Michaels, St Albans as Ann, daughter of Richard Duntley and Maria, baptised 10 Nov 1782.  (St Michaels is just over 1/2 mile from the Abbey compared to 15 miles for Houghton Regis).

There are also 2 brothers - James  Duntley (1780) & Richard  Duntley (1785). 
But Richard & Maria had further children baptised at St Michaels - William Dunkly (1787), Elizabeth Dunkley (1790), Jonathan Dunkley (1793) & Maria Dunkly (1797)
(All of the above can be found on the IGI)

The "t" in Duntley is a rather vague letter & could at a stretch be interpreted as a "k".  The later "k" is much clearer (as is the "o" in Donckley).   But Duntley & Dunkley sound pretty similar anyway, as do Dunkley and Donckley.  We know from the marriage signatures that Ann was illiterate.   So, unless you have other evidence linking Anne Donckley of Houghton Regis with St Albans, I suggest it was most probably this Ann Dunkley who married John Wardell.
What do you think?

The only (and very good) candidates so far for Richard & Maria are from a marriage in Flamstead (a village about 6 miles from St Albans) of Richard Dunkley & Maria Carrington 1 Nov 1779.

Regards,
Brian

PS:  It may just be a typo on your part, but Thomas Wardle married Elizabeth Mantle READ and I'm sure he is the right Thomas.

[BUZZ]

Hello Brian,

Thank you for your reply and all the information.

Your Ann seems much more likely to be the correct person with St. Michaels so close to St. Albans.

On the subject of the marriage of John and Ann's son Thomas to Elizabeth I had seen her surname as Mantle Read.

But on Elizabeth's Christening which I hope I have correctly 7/7/1802 at St. Mary's Marylebone just the name Mantle appears with her parents as Thomas and Lydia (maiden name not known) so I thought the surname on the marriage was a mistake.

Any other information you have on the family I would be very interested in.

Regards Buzz

[Slinger]

Hi Buzz,
Thanks for your prompt reply.

Regarding Elizabeth, I had not seen the christening you refer to.

Mantle is an obvious surname, so  I was anticipating perhaps a baptism of an illegitimate Elizabeth Mantle with a subsequent marriage of her mother to Mr Read, or just Elizabeth Mantle Read, illegitimate (perhaps fathered by a Mr Mantle).

You may have found the right one.  If Thomas Mantle died young, Lydia might have then married Mr Read and Elizabeth took his surname, keeping her own as a middle name.

I can confirm the marriage entry is for Elizabeth Mantle Read and not a mistake.

To check that I had the right marriage, I obtained the birth certificate of one of their younger daughters.
She was born 16 Mar 1838 at 54 Drummond Crescent, daughter of Thomas Wardle & Elizabeth Mantle Wardle formerly Read.  Her name?   Sarah Lydia - Interesting!!!!

More to follow
Brian

[BUZZ]

Hello Brian

More interesting facts you come up with.

I think the likelihood is as you say that Thomas died young and Lydia re-married.

Incidentally 54 Drummond Crescent is where Thomas and Elizabeth's grandson Alfred Burrows was born on the 29/12/1853, parents Charles Burrows and Elizabeth Wardle.

Regards
Buzz

[BUZZ]

There is a  another posting on rootschat dated 16 September 2011.

Marriage look-up-Flamstead

Which refers to a Marriage between Nathaniel Green & Martha Carrington at Flamstead on the 11/10/1792.

Perhaps a sister of Maria's.

Buzz

[Slinger]

Hi Buzz

Re: Thomas Mantle
Just had a consultation with Ancestry  and guess what.
St Marylebone 21 Dec 1804 burial of a Thos Mantle
Couldn't however find marr of Lydia either to him or to Read.

Re: 54 Drummond St. 
Also Charles & Elizabeth's first son Charles was born Q2 1851
In the 1851 census, Elizabeth had moved in with her parents (without husband Charles, who was with his own parents) no doubt ready for the imminent birth.  Probably the same thing happened again when Alfred was born.

Strange coincidence that in both of these 1851 censuses the Head is given the wrong Christian name.

Re: Maria's sister?
Possibly, there are several potential relatives of Maria (and Richard) in Flamstead and maybe a connection with the other post you mentioned.

I don't know if you are aware of it, but Hertfordshire Names online is an index largely based on the Allen index of Herts Marriages but with other useful sources,  It is accessible from the Herts Archives web site
www.hertsdirect.org/services/leisculture/heritage1/hals/
You can find several Carrington or D(u/o)n(c)kl(e)y marriages (not found how to do a wild card search - have to enter each variant separately).

I've not yet got round to looking at Flamstead PR's for marriages found this way or for Bapts of Richard & Maria, though neither appears in the IGI.

Brian