Romani Rosers

[tmm1975]

Hi Rachael, Casalguidi and Cathay,

I would have to agree with you Cathay, they are definately gypsies/travelling folk.  I believe that a lot of the time they were farmed during the off season. would that be correct?  I don't think you will ever get a copy of 'In Search of Elizabeth'  I think I asked Jan for a copy when I saw her last and she said that there were no more.  Luckily our family has one and my mum and let me use it.

So we are not too far away from each other, Rachael.  Do you come up here very often?  Would love to compare notes.  Either in Perth or Busso.  What do you think?

Thanks again Casalguidi for the info.

Cheers
Tanya

[bsngal86]

Hi Tanya,

After searching for William & Dianah Roser on the Welcome Walls website, I think you guys are right, as it states that their usual occupation in England was Romany Gypsy! I think my great-uncle will be shocked to see the proof, as he's always maintained they were not Gypsies!!!

I'd love to catch up Tanya, and compare notes, although your notes will be significantly greater than mine! I'm going up to Perth in the next month or so to see my great uncle, as he has a lot of family photos and death certificates he won't send down in the post for me (sigh), so maybe we can catch up when I'm up there.

In regards to Williams parents, I was trolling through Familysearch.org the other day and came across a birth record for a William Roser, born 22 Feb 1802, to a Thomas & Sarah Roser in Appeldore, Kent....am I on the right track???

Rachael

[bsngal86]

Ok, I'm a little confused....

Had another look at the Rosers arrival in Fremantle on the Welcome Walls website...but there's 2 separate listings with key differences....

Links are as follows:

1. http://welcomewalls.museum.wa.gov.au/search_viewlisting.asp?PID=12292&PN=1&SearchKey=roser&SearchType=1

2. http://welcomewalls.museum.wa.gov.au/search_viewlisting.asp?PID=16713&PN=1&SearchKey=roser&SearchType=1


Which one is correct???

Rachael

[tmm1975]

Hi Rachael,

Don't take too much notice of the Welcome Walls.  They are done by family members.  For example; my great aunt gave the Fremantle Maritime Museum all the information for my Nonna's families plaque.  They then sent her a certificate stating there was a plaque on the welcome walls.  If you look up the names, Green and Beacham you will find that Jane daughter of the William and Mary Beacham appears in two separate plaques and that she is also mentioned in George Green's plaque as she married him.

For sure on the catch up.  I got most of my info from Jan James the lady who wrote 'In search of Elizabeth'.  There is not much more to find that she hasn't.  I was speaking to Jan the other night about the possibility of the William Roser (b 1902 - Appledore Kent) being our William Roser.  We both determined that we will need to get their marriage certificate.  I have a friend in England that I may be able to ask for help. 

Jan has been searching for over 30 years for his parents/birth.  It was only when Ancestry released the bmds that it surfaced.  She is now also a little unsure as to whether William really was romany, so would be very interested to hear what your great uncle has to say.  Can I ask who he is?  She is positive that Diana was definately Romany because she can be traced to other romany families, (although I do not have this information) but as for William she is wondering whether he only married into the Romany.  Really need that marriage certificate. 

What part of Perth are you heading to... I am in High Wycombe, which is off Roe Highway. 

Tanya

[bsngal86]

Tanya,

I really don't know which listing is correct, my gut tells me the arrival on the 20 August 1842 is, as the Dictionary of West Australians lists them as arriving Oct 1842....

Is it possible to obtain William's marriage certificate? Ukbmd.co.uk only has records from 1837 onwards.

My grand-uncle maintains that the Rosers were itinerant workers/farmers, and has been researching for about 30+yrs, never finding any connection to Gypsies, so I'm not sure what to believe!!!

I'm looking at coming to Perth around mid-Feb, staying with my sister in Ballajura, should be easy to get to High Wycombe from there.

Rachael

[casalguidi]

You could try contacting Sevenoaks Library to see whether they have film of the original registers
http://www.kent.gov.uk/KCC.Libraries.Web.Sites.Public/LibraryDetails.aspx?aid=0&lid=62

Otherwise using http://www.familysearch.org search the library catalogue for Otford and, for a small fee, order the relevant film for viewing at your local LDS centre (details will be on the site).

The original marriage may be no help at all, as is often the case pre 1837, but should be checked out just in case to see whether there is any useful information ie. maritual status, names of witnesses.

Casalguidi

[tmm1975]

Hi Rachael and Casalguidi,

Just copied this from the Perth DPS site. 

"The emigrant ship Simon Taylor sailed from London on April 30, 1842. She was under the command of Thomas Brown and arrived off Fremantle in the Swan River Colony 111 days later on August 20, 1842.

There were 242 passengers in all - 5 traveled in the cabins and the rest in steerage. Of those, 219 were assisted migrants and 18 were Parkhurst boys.

The 18 Parkhurst lads were convicted children from the Isle of Wight and by 1852 a further 316 had been sent to the Swan River and apprenticed to local settlers. Other boys were sent to Tasmania, New Zealand, Victoria and even Norfolk Island.

[Top]     Name               Age  Family/Single  Occupation   Quarantine     Comments

ROSER         William        39          F        Ag. Lab.      27 days      ROSER on Quarantine List & ROSE on Ship List.
ROSER         Diana          33          F          ...         27 days      ROSER on Quarantine List & ROSE on Ship List.
ROSER         Lucy           11          F          ...         27 days      ROSER on Quarantine List & ROSE on Ship List.
ROSER         Elizabeth       9          F          ...         27 days      ROSER on Quarantine List & ROSE on Ship List.
ROSER         Fanny           7          F          ...         27 days      ROSER on Quarantine List & ROSE on Ship List.
ROSER         Mary Ann        6          F          ...         27 days      ROSER on Quarantine List & ROSE on Ship List."
COURTESY OF PERTH DPS

The Roser's were in quarantine for 27 days so that would make them released  to Clarence Quarantine Camp on the 16th September 1842.  Does your great uncle know why Mary and Elizabeth died?  Wondering if perhaps Mary died in birth, could she have been pregnant?  Do you think it is possible that Elizabeth died as she was so young and her mother had passed?

Looking for a list of Gypsy Ships, I always thought that the Simon Taylor left from Gravesend, Kent not London.

Tanya
 

[bsngal86]

Hi Tanya,

I guess by the time they were released from quarantine, it times out about right to what was printed in the Dictionary of West Australians Vol. 1. The more I look at it, the more I think that this Welcome Wall listing (http://welcomewalls.museum.wa.gov.au/search_viewlisting.asp?PID=12292&PN=1&SearchKey=roser&SearchType=1) is correct, but there's still that inkling in the back of my mind as to whether they were gypsies or not..... :-S

As for Mary and Elizabeth, Jan James states in her book 'In Search of Elizabeth' that Elizabeth was perhaps taken by natives (although Jan has now found that Elizabeth did live and go on to marry and die in the eastern states), and that Mary Ann died in 1843 of severe burns.

I have to agree with you on the departure location, I always thought the Simon Taylor did sail from Gravesend, however my great-great-great grandmother Lucy Roser's future husband, John Charles Playle, was onboard the same ship, and he was born in Essex, so it kind of makes sense that they would meet in London to board the Simon Taylor.

Rachael

[casalguidi]

however my great-great-great grandmother Lucy Roser's future husband, John Charles Playle, was onboard the same ship, and he was born in Essex, so it kind of makes sense that they would meet in London to board the Simon Taylor.

No, that wouldn't necessarily make sense - Gravesend is the other side of the river Thames from Essex.  The "Simon Taylor" did sail from Gravesend as noted in "The Times" newspaper shipping columns of the day (see one of my posts above).  It was quite common for ships of the day to be loaded with cargo at one of the London docks then pick up their passengers in Gravesend.

Casalguidi