Author Topic: Joshua REYNOLDS  (Read 5819 times)

Offline Cats1723

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Re: Joshua REYNOLDS
« Reply #18 on: Sunday 07 November 21 23:23 GMT (UK) »
so i wrote this

RESEARCH NOTES on the various "wives" of Sir Joshua Reynolds on other websites.

Sarah Warne see https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NKGD-RTB

this marriage between Sarah Warne and Joshua Reynolds was in 1735 in London making the future Sir Joshua Reynolds just 12 years old then and living in Devon with his parents at the time. Obviously it is a different Joshua Reynolds

Sarah Marytn, this marriage to Joshua Reynolds occurred in St Agnes near Truro, Cornwall in 1757, but this Joshua Reynolds was born in 1730, married in 1757 and died in 1806 all in St Agnes see

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGLK-RSS6

and https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGLK-WJJR

again a different Joshua Reynolds and see Joshua Reynolds

Anne Zackville, apart from being mentioned on other various websites as a wife of Sir Joshua Reynolds, there are no records of her existence. Change the name to Anne Sackville and there is a lot more Anne Sackvilles, but none of them marry a Joshua Reynolds.

Jane Cardell, not even sure why some websites have her as a wife for Sir Joshua Reynolds, she married a Stephen Reynolds on the 11 October 1730 St Mary, Whitechapel, Middlesex, England


Offline Cats1723

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Re: Joshua REYNOLDS
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 07 November 21 23:24 GMT (UK) »

RESEARCH NOTES

for all of you that believe that Thomas Reynolds was the son of Sir Joshua Reynolds

1/ There are no sources or evidence that prove this. All the sources listed on the internet are all very bad or do not exist sources listed making the mother of Thomas being 12 when she gave birth to Thomas. Joshua being married off when he was 12, Joshua been married off in London when it was known he was still living with his parents in Devon. And the list can go on and on with wrong sources listed, or none at all.

2/ Sir Joshua Reynolds stated himself that he never married, he was over 65 years old when he stated this.

3/ Edward Reynolds, the son of Thomas Reynolds and his notebook. Edward Reynolds, the son of Thomas Reynolds kept a notebook, in it he wrote a short, family history, then three biographies Sir Joshua Reynolds, David Garrick (A friend of Joshua Reynolds) and Martin Luther. Why he choose these three men is anyone's guess. Edward Reynolds made no claim of descent from any of these three men, but what obviously happened was that as the notebook ended up with one of the descendants of Thomas Reynolds, one or more of them misread the notebook, and because they had the same surname as Reynolds, they believed that it meant that they were descended from Sir Joshua Reynolds. Fast forward to the 1980's the note book was presumably stolen, however one of the Gosper descendants had it photocopied and this photocopy now resides in the Hawkesbury library see Home - Hawkesbury Library Service (nsw.gov.au)

put in Edward Reynolds under search catalogue and it will come up as notebook, it will cost about $12 Australian for a scan. Fast forward again to the internet, some one or someones, added the misinformation to the internet, and with everyone ticking those leaves and matches, this misinformation spread across the internet

4/ Circumstantial evidence

Sir Joshua Reynolds was firmly in the middle class when such things mattered in England in the 1700's. Thomas Reynolds was a millwright, a skilled trade, but it was still a trade. If Thomas was truly his son, you would think he would do more for a son than just a trade, Why not University like his nephews, a commission in the Army or Navy. No a trade. Joshua's unmarried sister acted as his housekeeper, not a wife. Joshua painted many of his family, but no painting of a wife or children exist. Joshua wrote many letters and so did his literary friends, and many of them survive, not a single one mentions a wife or children. The will of Sir Joshua Reynolds, he left the bulk of his estate to one of his nieces Mary Palmer, not to any grandchildren he would have had if Thomas Reynolds (Thomas Reynolds predeceased Joshua) was his son. No descendant of Thomas Reynolds for at least 4 generations, (that's as far as I have looked) had the first name of Joshua or had Joshua even as a middle name. Contrast that with the collateral descendants of Joshua Reynolds, who often were given Joshua as a first or middle name, for those who surnames were not Reynolds, they were often given Reynolds as a first name or a middle name. The Chief mourner at the funeral of Sir Joshua Reynolds was one of his nephews, no any supposedly son or a grandson, see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvz3pIOLL8s
this is a lecture by Ricahrd Wendorf see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Wendorf
5/ Sites like Wikitree, Geni, The Peerage, Famiiy Search and Sir Joshua Reynolds Wikipedia entry do not have any marriage or children listed for Sir Joshua Reynolds.. Anyone can alter a Wikipedia entry, you just need an account. Why have none of the managers that have Thomas Reynolds as the son of Sir Joshua Reynolds, changed the Wikipedia entry to include a wife and Thomas Reynolds as Joshua's son.

6/ Ian McIntyre in his over 600 page bio of Sir Joshua Reynolds. found no wife or son for him "Joshua Reynolds The Life and Times of the First President of the Royal Academy" Published in 2003. It is very detailed and full of sources.

7/ Frederic Thomas Colby writing in the late 1800,s had sp o.b. after Sir Joshua Reynolds name this is a short form of Latin meaning died with no children.

see Pedigrees of five Devonshire families, Colby, Coplestone, Reynolds, Palmer and Johnson [microform] : Colby, Frederic Thomas, 1827-1899 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

8/ In conclusion, the original misreading of Edward Reynolds note book by person or persons unknown, has now turned into cherished family history.

Offline Cats1723

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Re: Joshua REYNOLDS
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 07 November 21 23:26 GMT (UK) »
not that the Managers on Ancestry and My heritage take any notice of this. Family Myths are so hard to get rid of

Offline Gadget

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Re: Joshua REYNOLDS
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 07 November 21 23:47 GMT (UK) »
It's quite clear to me that Thomas is not the son of Sir Joshua Reynolds. As I said on a early post on this thread, I did study Reynolds when I was studying Art History and there was no evidence whatsoever that he had any children, legitimate or illegitimate.

The baptism record on the date that is bandied about for Thomas is clear tha his parents are John and Eleanor. If you don't have access to the register for Tower Hamlets, I can let you have the image if you send me your e-mail by Personal Message.

If I were you, I'd really ignore all those erroneous trees. I have the same problems with various trees about my ancestors. Also, you'll find many threads on here about other members having similar problems. If an erroneous tress is copied by many ,it might be annoying but, as long as you have thoroughly  tested the information that you have used to construct  your tree, then that is all that matters.

Forget about the other trees. The various sites - Ancestry, My Heritage, etc. are not responsible for the validity of individual trees on their sites so I don't think it's worth getting upset about it.

Gadget
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Offline Cats1723

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Re: Joshua REYNOLDS
« Reply #22 on: Monday 08 November 21 00:03 GMT (UK) »
I do not put my family history on Ancestry and My heritage ,  I have unsubscribed myself from Ancestry and My heritage it was driving me crazy with all the Genealogical garbage that is there on those sites, most of my family I have put on Wikitree, that is free and some on geni with a basic account. and family search. All of those sites have the correct information regarding Sir Joshua Reynolds


Offline Cats1723

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Re: Joshua REYNOLDS
« Reply #23 on: Monday 08 November 21 00:13 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for your kind offer, about the records about Thomas.  But now that I have happily had a bit of a rant about Ancestry and My heritage trees. I will leave it at that

Offline Gadget

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Re: Joshua REYNOLDS
« Reply #24 on: Monday 08 November 21 08:52 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for your kind offer, about the records about Thomas.  But now that I have happily had a bit of a rant about Ancestry and My heritage trees. I will leave it at that


So, did you join Rootschat, just to have a rant  ;D


PS - a cursory look at some of the many trees that you mentioned, shows that they are wildly inaccurate.
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Offline Gadget

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Re: Joshua Reynolds
« Reply #25 on: Monday 08 November 21 09:43 GMT (UK) »
Sir Joshua Reynolds' will can be downloaded for £3.50 from the Nat Archives:

Click here

It might be out there for free somewhere as well  :)

Good Luck

Gadget


As this thread is about 13 years old, the link is not working now. This is the current one:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D365022


Gadget
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Offline Cats1723

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Re: Joshua REYNOLDS
« Reply #26 on: Monday 08 November 21 23:30 GMT (UK) »
no not really but i do bag ancestry trees and My heritage trees every chance i can get i would say 90% of them are genealogical garbage when regarding my family tree. And when researching Thomas Reynolds i have to laugh at some trees on ancestry that have a daughter for him Dorcas Reynolds born in the USA urg