COLCHESTER MARRIAGE - PAGE 1784

[Irene Lilian Hunt]

Good grief Frances you may jump in all you like!!!  And thank you so very much.

Given those ages they have to be my two!  Now I know their ages I can look for their baptisms - hopefully they will be in Colchester and possibly St. Leonards as their marriage entry Clincher got for me says they were both OTP.

Therefore it would seem that -

Simon Page was born C1758
and Mary Page (nee Page) was born C1761

and they were therefore 26 and 23 at the time of their marriage.

Sooooooooo  - if anyone has access to St Leonards baptism registers for this time I would be very grateful.

Frances and Clincher, thank you both so very much.

Regards, Irene in Qld, Australia where it's 8.00pm and about 254 degrees celsius after about 35 during the day!!!

[Irene Lilian Hunt]

Oops in my excitement I got that around the wrong way -

Mary Page 1758
Simon Page 1761

Regards, Irene

[Clincher]

And what about the temperature   Will you still be there after frying tonight?
If noone else looks it up I'll be glad to next visit to ERO, which should be soon - I have a shoulder injury at the mo which cramps my style a bit.
Incidentally Irene (and please don't think I'm trying to fob you off) here's some info about Essex RO in case you don't know it. The info begins with a word which some might think is rude but it's not -it's the name for the kind of sword which is the symbol for Essex - SEAX. Google 'SEAX'. When I tried it just now the third hit was Essex Archives online -click on that. About half way down the next page is 'SEAX -Essex archives online'. Click on 'Guest' on next page and you can then search everything which has been included in the online catalogue (which is lots).
It can take some getting used to but for us in UK you can see what is available and order it in advance so that it is ready on arrival at Essex RO so time is maximised. It is a fantastic service.
In the case of microfilmed docs they are readily available in open access cabinets so it is not really necessary to make a search but if you want to see how it works I can tell you that the sequence for Saint Leonard's Colchester parish registers begins with D/P 245/1/1 and you can continue the sequence D/P 245/1/2 etc (you have to leave a space between P and the first no or it won't work).
It may be just the thing for a hot, sleepless Aussie night....

[Clincher]

Hallo Irene: I went to Essex RO today and looked up microfiche D/P 245/1/1 for Saint Leonard's Colchester. This consists of 6 microfiche and each one is a mixture of entries for baptisms, marriages and burials so it's a bit messy to search. As luck would have it the 5th of 6 and the one most likely to have your details on it has been missing/nicked since 2003.
However there is a transcript (T/R 124/1 prepared  in 1917)  which has these PAGEs baptisms:
2 Oct 1759 Henry son of Henry and Ann PAGE
12 April 1761 Ann dau of Henry and Ann PAGE
30 Oct 1763 John son of Henry and Ann PAGE
23 Sept 1764 Henry son of John and Amy PAGE
22 July 1766 Mary dau of Henry and Ann PAGE
27 July 1766 Thomas son of John and Amy PAGE
16 March 1769 Willm son of Henry and Ann PAGE
24 Sept 1769 Thomas son of John and Amy PAGE
1 Apr 1770 Thomas son of Henry and Ann PAGE
19 July 1772 Hannah dau of Henry
? July 1789 Ann son of Henry and Mary PAGE
2 Jan 1791 Hannah dau of John and Mary PAGE

I did not search after that.
The page containing the transcripts for 1758 only covered the period for 1/1/1758 to 23/4/1758 which is unusual giving me the impression that the fellow who did it forgot to finish that year off before continuing with 1759 or someone omitted the original entries any way.
Next time I go I'll ask if I can see the originals.

Disappointing so far..unless someone made a mistake with Mary's age at burial.

[Irene Lilian Hunt]

Hi Clincher,  After having visitors for a while I have now gotten back to my genealogy!!

Had a good look at those baptisms and your suggestion that Mary Page's age at death may have been wrong and have considered that one - it could be so because it would then still put her age at 18 at marriage - which was quite acceptable.  My other thought was that she may not have been baptised as an infant but then I looked back through them again at the baptisms for children of Henry Page (which the 1766 Mary was) and they span the period 1759 - 1772.  But my thought is if the first one was in 1759 and if Mary was born in 1758 why wasn't she done then?  I have assumed that the second last one on your list with a father named Henry is in fact the Henry baptised in 1759.

One could go on and on and speculate couldn't one?  Certainly back to the drawing board for me.  And of course there is no certainty that either Mary or Simon were actually born in Colchester - merely OTP as adults at the time of their marriage.  Opens up a real problem.

Thanks for your efforts on my behalf, they are most appreciated.

Regards,  Irene

PS  Got a bit carried away with the keys on the keyboard with that temperature didn't I?  Mind you I must tell you that three nights ago our overnight temperature was 28 degrees and our days have been 32 - 38 since Christmas.  On average however overnight has been 19 - 24!

[Clincher]

Hallo Irene: I suspect all will fall into place one day. I'll keep an eye open for the PAGEs especially if the missing fiche turns up or I get a chance to look at original register.
I have a shoulder and arm injury at the mo. Can't drive, can't do jobs in house or garden and daytime TV is a nono for me so I get very bored. Can't do much writing or typing so can't do my own genealogy but try to pick up on other's brick walls and help if I can.
We are having an old-fashioned winter for a few days in SE England but zummerisacumminin

[Clincher]

Hallo Irene, I went to Colchester and looked at their copy of the missing fiche which proved that the 1917 transcript was fully done in respect of 1758. The archivist looked at the original register and confirmed that the micro-filming process had been accurately done.
He agreed that there was a gap and, although no explanatory note had been contemporaneously made, he thought it likely that there had been an interregnum of priests.
So it looks as if the PAGEs would have had to go elsewhere for their baptisms. Indications for other entries suggest that the alternatives would have been St. Nicholas, St. Botolph's or St Giles all in Colchester so they would be the next best bets.
I looked back to 1743 and did not see any PAGE baptisms other than those I have already listed. Incidentally I have added the parents' names to the message of 9 Feb

[Clincher]

..so I looked up Colchester Saint Botolph's which said for baptisms 1741-1836 see Colchester All Saints (D/P 200/1/8 fiche 2 of 4) which I did and then looked up Colchester Saint Giles baptisms D/P 324/1/1 1693-1781 fiche 2 of 4 and Colchester St Nicholas D/P 176/1/3 fiche 1 and 2 of 4 all of which were searched from 1750-1765 and I did not see a single PAGE there. I even had a look at a narrower range of relevant years in Colchester St James again with no luck.
I also went to Dedham Independent Chapel (and if you look at IGI for Mary Page you'll understand why) and found this clutch of PAGEs in PRO ref: RG4/1511 Essex RO ref: Non-Conformist Reel 5
entry 44 Mary 1759 Oct? 29?
entry 54 John 1761 Mar 20
entry 73 Richard 1763 June 30
entry 91 Isaac 1765 May 24 which I list just in case the names resonate down the years (their parents were John and Mary PAGE).
There were probably a few other Colchester churches at that time but I've run out of puff and time for the moment.
I have a feeling that the fact that both parties to the marriage signed as PAGEs made me think that it was desirable to look at the banns but I don't think banns had to be published back then* and IF that is so it's going to be impossible ruling out whether Mary signed register in her new married name and not her single name.
If you search IGI for all British Isles for  Simon PAGE born 1755 + or - 5 you only get 9 hits most of which are pretty plausible (given the travel methods of the time) as candidates for nipping off to Colchester to get spliced.
But we're in the realm of speculation again...I'll keep an eye open

*since I first posted this message I've found it written that banns were required in England and Wales w.e.f 1754 so maybe I couldn't find 'em I'll have another look

[Clincher]

Sadly there is no record of St. Leonard's banns before 1798 at Essex RO. I did try to scan an explanatory page from the register but it's 1.4MB and too big fro Rootschat...
But still investigating