Mary Knight 1871/1861 census

[ricky1]

Have you got Jemima in 1841 

ricky

[Bethan]

No do you have the 1841 as well?I was afraid to ask because after all the help you have given me I did not want to appear cheeky!

Thanks for your interest Bethan

[bedfordshire boy]

Have you tried the IGI? Her birth is given as 30 Apr 1845 in an extracted entry, so I think Ricky may have been sent on a wild goose chase looking for a Mary who was too old.

HO107/1751 folio 513A
Upper End, Oakley
Samuel Knight head marr 61 ag lab
Ann Knight  wife 64
Anna Knight dau unm 20 lace maker
John Knight son unm 18 lace maker
James Knight son unm 16 lacemaker
Mary Knight dau 5
All b Oakley

Jemima Knight's parents were Samuel & Ann per the IGI (extracted) and as Ann in the census was obviously too old to be the mother of Mary it looks like an enumeration error and Mary should have been described as grand daughter

FreeBMD shows an 1850 marriage of Jemima Knight in Bedford registration district. By a process of elimination in the 1851 census her husband may have been John Bell, but I can't find them in 1851.

What do you know about either Jemima or Mary after 1851? Did Mary marry?

For bastardy bond information see
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,255953.0.html
and
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,264817.0.html

David

[Bethan]

Hi David, Mary certainly did marry, she was my gggrandmother.
The problem with the date of birth is the fact that I have different dates from different sources.
According to the 1881 census, Mary who was then living with her husband Alfred  Emery and children in River St Bedford was born in 1841.
But according to the IGI when she married Alfred in St Pauls Bedford in 1873 she was 29, so that would make her date of birth 1844.
And as you pointed out the record of her birth on the IGI at Oakley puts her birth as April 1845, the only thing that I can think is that perhaps there were two Mary Knights born in Oakley around that time, it is quite a puzzle, and the only clue I have is that Mary is supposed to have been born without benefit of clergy(I was told this by my late grandmother)
Anyway thank you so much for your interest and I apologise if I have confused anyone

Best Wishes Bethan

[bedfordshire boy]

I don't think there were two Marys.

I think you have to put it down to the unreliability of census ages. The extracted IGI entry has her as born 30 April 1845, baptised 7 Sept 1845, daughter of Jemima, so she was definitely baptised and I don't understand what "without the benefit of clergy" means! Her baptism seems to have been delayed a bit beyond the more usual "within a month of birth", but it's not that late.

Her age was spot on in the 1851 census and she aged badly thereafter! But usually the census closest to the birth is the most accurate.

Interesting that in 1881 she had James Bell staying with the family, described as brother in law. He must have been her half brother (or possibly even full brother although I doubt it) from Jemima's marriage to John Bell in 1850. Jemima must have died young, as John Bell living in Bedford St Paul is described as a widower in 1861 with three children,  the youngest James aged 3 born Clapham. But I still can't find Jemima and John Bell in 1851

David

[Bethan]

Sorry David, without benefit of clergy was an expression that my grandmother used to describe someone born out of wedlock.
You are probably right that the problem lies with the census ages, and that was a useful tip about using the census closest to the birth as a guideline,very obvious but I had never thought of it!
Thank you so much for all your help, everything seems a lot clearer now, although unless I get hold of a birth certificate for Mary I doubt that I will ever find out the name of her father.

With Very Best Wishes Bethan

[janan]

Hi Bethan

You may be lucky and find the father's name has been entered on the birth certificate but it is more likely that there will be a blank. Worth getting if you can run to it just in case.

See
http://www.dixons.clara.co.uk/Certificates/births.htm#COL4
for details

Do you have her marriage cert? If not again you might be lucky and find her actual father's name- I struck gold with one of mine. Alternatively it might be blank, fictitious or even her grandfather.

Jan

[Bethan]

Thanks a lot for that information Jan it is very informative,I do not have her wedding certificate, but I think I will take a chance on her birth certificate as her date of birth is given in the .IGI.
Thanks a lot for your interest, Best Wishes Bethan