Groeslon, Llanllechid?

[hiraeth]

I have a marriage bond from 1810 - the bride and groom are both listed as being from Groeslon Llanllechid.  when I searched Groeslon on Genuki it came up with two locations - one near Llanbeblig and one at Llandwrog.  Since Llandwrog is very close to Llanllechid  I'm guessing that this the right one.  Can anyone familiar with the area help me with pinpointing where this Groeslon would have been and/or located today ?

thanks
Heather

[WelshGen]

The two Groeslon Genuki are pointing to are about 8 miles away from Llanllechid ... one on the Caernarvon to Porthmadog road (more like 10 miles)and the other on the Caernarvon to Beddgelert Road. I'm sure there is one between Llanllechid and Bethesda but it isn't showing on any map I have, recent or past. I'll have a hunt round.
Have you tried the 1841 census to find this couple and see where it says they were born?

[hiraeth]

Hi Welshgen

Thanks for looking - I thought it was me being half blind

The man in question was a Robert Roberts, a sawyer age 60 on the 1841 census of Bangor.  He died in January 1843 but his wife Ann Pierce Roberts survived for the 1851.  She is listed then age 78, pob Llanllechid.  I'm looking into Robert's history because I believe he was related to my 3xG grandfather John Roberts of Hirael.  Coincidently they died within a fortnight of each other.  John Roberts on Dec 28, 1842 and Robert Roberts Jan 10, 1843.

A Robert Roberts witnessed and signed my John Roberts will.  The second witness was a Margaret Williams.  Robert Roberts had a daughter Margaret who married a Richard Williams.  I sent for the marriage licence and will of Robert Roberts - all three RR signatures match. 

They were both involved in the wood trade in Bangor - sawyer and timber merchant respectively and both left houses to their children in their wills.  In Robert Roberts case he left a total of fifteen houses plus ten more leaseholds on houses to his three children so he was better off than John!  The marriage bond states that both were from Groeslon, Llanllechid and the marriage was to take place in Llanllechid.  Robert & Anne's son, Zachariah, was a businessman in Bangor according to M. Elis-Williams book, Bangor Port of Beaumaris.   

I guess what I need to do now is obtain Robert's death certificate and based off that look for baptisms in Llanllechid for both of them.   

Heather

PS  Have just remembered  Zachariah states he was born in Llandwrog...

[Mair]

to add fuel to the fire you will find Pierce as a family name in all three locations - oooops sorry - shall I stay quiet!

Pierce is found in Nant Franccon for fact  ( i descend from one of them) and on the search for Mary Pierce's ancestors I found Pierce's in the other two locations - that could have possibly moved into the area - but not sure no evidence just one of those possibly may be's.

if it is a help mary's family used patronymics so its her fathers first name - birth date for Mary is around the 1780 mark.

However, Welshgen - i too am certain of hearing in the mists of time of a Groes lon close by to Bethesda too - but hey how many times have we all heard "from the next village" and it was goodness knows how many miles away and over how many of our wonderful mountain passes!

Mair

[hiraeth]

Hi Mair

It is interesting that you mention Nant Ffrancon.  My Dad was born in Tregarth and he told me many years ago that there had once been forests in that area but it had been cleared in the early 1800s for shipbuilding.  These Roberts of mine were from the opposite side of my "tree" so the info would not have been handed down.

I've just read on wikipedia that Telford built the old A5 road through Nant Ffrancon between 1810-1826.  I wonder whether that was where the trees for the timber trade/shipbuilding in Hirael during this same period came from?....

Heather

[Mair]

Hi Heather

Yes....my Dad said that he remembered being taken for "walks" when the family went back home up the valley and that he was told stories by "an old man" whom Nain and Taid let take the 3 boys off for a ramble or two, or three.......

The "old man" he once recalled to me lived at Pen y bryn and I think that this could have been my Dad's great uncle....I have no proof but it would be so nice to think that it was.   If it was, his name was Robert Rowlands and he had been back and forth to the US a couple of times too.  If it was Robert then his father was probably the sources for many of the stories before he left for the US - 90% of the family did. 

How the valley was cleared, if the stories are to be believed and I am one that does trust what is handed down, is amazing..... as the history was Anglicised I dont think we will find out recorded truths here but will have to rely on what we have been told with the salt cellar nearby!

mair

PS Groeslon = cross road - so there's quite a few to go for in the locale let alone the official village!

[hiraeth]

Quote from the Vegetation History of Snowdonia since the Late Glacial Period by Peter Rhind and Barbara Jones, Countryside Council for Wales 2003

"Between 1754-60 large numbers of oaks continued to be extracted to the extent that much of the Gwydyr Estate near Betws-y-Coed appears to have been denuded of oak by that time (Davies, 1813). By the 18th and early 19th centuries a growth in demand for timber by the local boat-building industry of North Wales further exacerbated the situation, and by the end of the 18th century there appears to have been very little natural woodland remaining in Snowdonia."

Read the full report at:
http://www.field-studies-council.org/fieldstudies/documents/vol10.4_276.pdf

Fascinating stuff!!

[WelshGen]

Thanks for that link Hiraeth, and you are right about it being fascinating.
Is it possible "Groeslon" is a house name and the family at some time or another had links with Groeslon. I've had no luck with finding it near Llanllechid but have not given up on this.

[hiraeth]

Is it possible "Groeslon" is a house name and the family at some time or another had links with Groeslon.

Hi Welshgen

I wondered that but then both of them are described separately as being from there.  One reason why I turned to Rootschatters for advice.  After pouring over the oldmaps and current OS ones the parish of Llanllechid doesn't seem to have many crossroads either.  Im afraid it is another mystery to add to the pile. 

Heather