GERMANY: The Stein and Gall Families

[Scott Thompson]

I am searching for info on two branches of the family.

John or Johan Leonard Stein, a butcher was born in Berlin in about 1842. He may have married
Marie Babette Weidner in London in 1874. I know of his whereabouts in the East End of London thanks to the intrepid work of a Rootschatter. I would like to know if there is anything about him and his family during the German years. I should also include the fact that John Leonard's wife was known as Barbara and they had a son named Frederick and a daughter who had Fredericke as one of her middle names (thanks Suz).

August Gall was a chemical worker, born in Germany in about 1852. His father was a German farmer named George Gall. August Gall married Catherine Collins in England in 1882 and they moved back to Germany before retuning to the East End. I would like to know if there is any info on his early life in Germany.
Thank you.
Scott

[Svenja]

Hello Scott

I don't know anything about Johann Leonard Stein and August Gall,
but I have a special interest in the surname Weidner.

Do you know where Marie Babette (Barbara) Weidner was born?
Do you know anything about her parents and siblings?

I have infos about Weidner families in Hesslar/Karlstadt in
Franconia/Bavaria (1750-1850) and other Weidner families
in Oestringen/Bruchsal in Baden (and later in Illinois/USA).

I would like to give you more details if you are interested
in this branches of Weidner families.

Best regards

Svenja

[Scott Thompson]

Thank you for responding Svenja! I was beginning to dispair about this side of the family. I know so little and what I do know is patchy at best. The only marriage info I can get is from free BMD. The only marriage that looks likely took place in the Strand, London in about March 1874 between John Leonhard Stein and Maria Barbette Weidner (if in fact they were married in England).
John is down as a Butcher and his wife is Barbara through the 1881,1891, and 1901 census. Neither of them appear on an  earlier census so it can be assumed they were living in Germany before this. John most likely died in 1918 at the age of about 77 but I cannot find any record details of Barbara's fate (maybe she returned to Germany).
I know nothing of her parents (I will probably get the marriage cert to find out) but I did notice a few Weidners getting married in London at about the same time; Louisa Matilda in 1875, Henry Thomas in 1876, and Charlotte Elizabeth in 1877. This last one may be interesting because she was married in the East End where a lot of this family's activity takes place.
The 1881 Census has her down as Barbara Staines from Kittemberg, Germany. In the 1891 Census she is Barbara Stein from Berlin, Germany.
So there you go. I hope you can help me make some sense of this.
Scott

[jorose]

Do any of the record (i.e. census) on your family say anything about naturalization?

www.nationalarchives.gov.uk - I couldn't see anything on August Gall, but there is a John Stein from Germany who became a British citizen in 1909, residing in London. Perhaps? (Although it looks as if in 1901 they are both listed as 'English subject'.

Finding where 'Kittemberg' is would be the key to locating earlier records on them. As Barbara later also mentions Berlin, it is possible that this place is somewhere near Berlin. Have you see the original image of the 1881 census, to try and decipher the placename?

I think Charlotte Elizabeth Weidner in 1877 married William Henry W. Wilkinson (on freebmd he is one of the possible spouses), and she was from Essex - there is a W. H. Wilkinson on the 1881 with wife Charlotte E, 22, born Essex, and on 1871 there is a Charlotte Weidner,12, b. Barking Essex, living with her family (none born Germany, they're all born Essex).  There seems to be a concentration of Weidner's in Essex, presumably descended from some earlier immigrant?

Similar, I think Henry Thomas Weidner was born in Essex in 1855, and Louisa Matilda may have been born in London (Clerkenwell) in 1845.

Louisa is the only one who has an obvious German connection - in 1871 she is living with her uncle, John M. Weidner, retired pork butcher, who was born Wurtemberg in around 1802.

[Svenja]

Hello Scott

If they married in England and you don't have the marriage cert
it will be very difficult to find them in Germany. It will be much
easier if we know their dates and places of birth and the names
of their parents.

If you know the place of birth in Germany you can search
in the parish registers of this town or village. The parish
registers are in the church archives in the area which the
town or village belongs to.

Louisa Matilda, Henry Thomas, Charlotte Elizabeth are not
common names of my Weidner branch in Franconia/Bavaria.
But Maria Barbara and especially Babette is a common name
in Bavaria.

Kittemberg - could it be mistranscribed? There are the following possibilities
(maybe there are more, I don't know all places in Germany):

Kittenberg, there is no Kittenberg in Germany, but in the Steiermark in Austria.
Wittenberg is the capital of the county Wittenberg in Sachsen-Anhalt (East-Germany).
Wittenburg belongs to the county Ludwigslust in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (North-Germany).
Württemberg is a region in the southwest of Germany, it's east of Baden and west of Bayern.

Best regards

Svenja

[Scott Thompson]

It is very unfortunate that I cannot find a Kathleen, Barbara, or Fredericke Stein or Stain birth cert in the UK. I can find reasonable matches for her siblings under the name Staines (as the name appears in the 1881 Census) but they are only conjecture at this point. I run the risk making an unscientific assumption - maybe my John Leonard Stein did not marry Maria Barbette Weidner, and his marriage took place in Germany! It is also possible that Kathleen Barbara Fredericke Stain or Stein was herself born in Germany.
The onus is on me now to find out just who was her mother.
Scott

[Scott Thompson]

Hello again
I have finally found Kathleen Stein's birth cert!
She was registered as Bawette Kattrina Friedericke Stein, born Jan 2nd 1882 at 89 Cannon Street, London in the parish of St. Mary, St George in the East.
Her parents are down as Leonardt Johann Stein, a butcher, and Anna Bawette Weitner.
Is Weitner close enough to Weidner, and can Bawette substitute for Barbette?
Scott

[Berlin-Bob]

Hi Scott,

Is Weitner close enough to Weidner, and can Bawette substitute for Barbette?

within the usual realms of "transcription error", "misheard", "foreign accents", etc, I would say that sounds like a very reasonable assumption.

regards,
Bob

[Scott Thompson]

Thank you.
Then, hopefully the marriage  took place in the Strand, London in March 1874 between John Leonhard Stein and Maria Barbette Weidner. Their marriage cert will, I pray yield parents and placenames in Germany.
Scott