Alfred HADDOCK & Hannah BOND of Lostock Gralam

[AncestryFinder]

I am hoping to find some more info on my GR GR grandfather, Alfred HADDOCK.

He was married 1st to Martha DICKINSON on Oct 04 1880 at Tyldesley, Lancashire.

He married 2nd to Hannah [Ann] BOND on Sep 06 1886 at All Saints, Moulton, Runcorn.

They had several children, some of whom died in infancy:

1]  Mary E - born abt 1887; can't find after 1891 Census
2]  Pass - born and died 1891
3]  John Alfred - born and died 1891
4]  William - born 1894
5]  Alfred b 1896 married Olive BOWYER in 1917 at St Paul, Marsten.
6]  Ada b abt 1899 - married James LAMB 1916 in St John, Lostock Gralam
7]  likely Thomas Alfred born 1903 / died 1997

Here they are in 1891 and 1901:

1891 CENSUS - 22, The Cinders, St John's, Lostock Gralam, Northwich

Alfred HADDOCK, head, m, age 26, labourer at Chemical Works, born Barnton
Ann, wife, m, age 21, born Lostock Gralam
Mary E, dau, age 4, born Lostock Gralam
Pass, son, age 1 m, born Lostock Gralam
* *
1901 CENSUS - 203 Herbert Street, Lostock Gralam, Northwich

Alfred HADDOCK, head, marr, age 36, chemical labourer, born Barnton
Ann HADDOCK, wife, marr, age 29, born Lostock Gralam
William HADDOCK, son, age 8, born Northwich
Alfred HADDOCK, son, age 4, born Lostock Gralam
Ada HADDOCK, dau, age 1, born Lostock Gralam

I would love LOOK-UPS for Alfred & Hannah's marriage at Moulton because I would love to know Hannah BOND's father's name since I cannot find her in 1881 Census.

I would love the baptisms for each of the children which should be at St John the Evangelist, Lostock Gralam.

Alfred HADDOCK died Feb 25 1919 and the informant was his sister-in-law, Mary HADDOCK.

I would love their MI's as well as I wonder if Hannah perhaps died before him and that's why she was not the informant.

He has been my 'brick wall' for many years so I am anxious to learn as much as I can.

Thanks in advance!!
Dallas

[DS]

Hi Dallas

At the risk of making a complete idiot of myself (yet again)....

Can I please ask if you have any of the children's birth certificates which state that the mother was Hannah or Ann Bond or are you just relying upon the fact that an Alfred Haydock married Hannah Bond in 1886 ?

Also are you certain that it was “your” Alfred Haddock who married Martha Dickenson in 1880 ?  On the 1881 census, “your” Alfred seems to be still in Barnton and unmarried and pursuing the same line of work as his father. His next door neighbour, though, works at the Chemical Plant and that might be why Alfred had changed his occupation by 1891.

If you do have written confirmation (from a child’s birth certificate) that his wife was definitely called Ann or Hannah Bond then ignore the rest of this.

However, if you are only relying upon the marriage indexes and assuming that the two Alfreds must be “yours”, I would suggest that you should obtain the birth certificate for Pass Haddock in order to ascertain what his mother was called.

It is such an unusual first name and the only other instance of it in Northwich is a Pass Goulden in 1867. On the 1871 census he has a sister Ann Goulden who is exactly the same age as the Ann Haddock who appears on the 1891 and 1901 censuses with Alfred and she is from Lostock Granal.

I cannot find a marriage for an Alfred Haddock and an Ann Goulden but (if you do not have cast iron proof that Ann or Hannah Bond is the mother of the Haddock children) it seems to me that there could be a strong case for thinking that it might be Ann Goulden. There must have been some reason to call their child Pass.

What do you (or anyone else) think ?

DS 

[Manchester Rambler]

Bizarre....coincidence?

Deaths Jun 1891   (>99%)
GOULDING   Pass          0   
Northwich 8a 228   
HADDOCK   Pass           0   
Northwich 8a 228

I can't see a corresponding birth for Pass GOULDING.   

Rambler

[DS]

 

Hi

I forgot to add previously that the death registration for Pass Haddock in 1891 AMJ quarter is a bit strange, because at exactly the same reference (8a 228) there is another entry for a Pass Goulding (sic) both aged 0.

That must either be a duplication or an absolutely enormous coincidence

DS

Seconds apart Rambler ...Are you beginning to think what I think ?

[Manchester Rambler]

Definitely something odd here - and not just the forename!

Cheshire BMD only has the death for Pass GOULDING.

Rambler

[AncestryFinder]

Rambler & DS -

These finding are a bit strange to say the least )

This is what I had before for Pass HADDOCK so I hadn't seen the Pass GOULDEN/GOULDING birth/death --

England & Wales, FreeBMD Index: 1837-1983

Name:    Haddock, Pass
Record Type:    Births
Quarter:    June
Year:    1891
District:    Northwich
County:    Cheshire
Volume:    8a
Page:    269
* *      
England & Wales, FreeBMD Index: 1837-1983

Name:    HADDOCK, Pass
Record Type:    Deaths
Age at death:    0
Quarter:    June
Year:    1891
District:    Northwich
County:    Cheshire
Volume:    8a
Page:    228
* *
I have no idea why Alfred is listed as UNmarried in 1881 Census as he married Martha DICKINSON on Oct 04 1880 at St George's, Tyldesley. 

I do  know that Alfred HADDOCK that married Martha in 1880 and Hannah/Ann in 1886 were one and the same people!  I have his death cert and someone the other day sent me his burial info as well as Ann's and 2 of their sons'.  Confirmation that Alfred was born 1860 and in Barnton and the s/o Thomas HADDOCK & Ann WORRALL of Barnton.

The only way I knew Ann's name was from the following newspaper snippet --

CHESTER AND NORTH WALES ASSIZES
Liverpool Mercury etc (Liverpool, England), Monday, October 31, 1887; Issue 12420.

Alfred HADDOCK, 24, boatman, sentenced to 1 month imprisonment for marrying Hannah BOND in Moulton on Sep 06 1887 when his 1st wife Martha HADDOCK was still alive!!

In doing a check of the marriages at the Free BMD, I realized that I had never searched for HAYDOCK and that was how he was listed there.

Surname   Forename(s)   Surname   Forename(s)    Church Registers At   Reference
HAYDOCK   Alfred   BOND   Hannah   Runcorn, All Saints   Halton   C12/7/136
* *
England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983

Name:    Alfred Haydock
Year of Registration:    1886
Quarter of Registration:    Jul-Aug-Sep
District:    Runcorn
County:    Cheshire
Volume:    8a
Page:    351

Hannah Bond    1886    Jul-Aug-Sep         Runcorn    Cheshire
Alfred Haydock    1886    Jul-Aug-Sep         Runcorn    Cheshire
* *
This Pass GOULDEN/GOULDING is very interesting though with an Ann who matches because I have been UNABLE to find any Ann or Hannah BOND with a matching birthplace and year in the 1871 or 1881  Census.

Perhaps this explains why??

The other thing that is very strange is that although a daugther named Mary E HADDOCK born abt 1887 is with them in 1891 Census, I can find NOTHING at all for her with regard to Birth, Marriage or Death and wonder whether she was a figment of the Census taker's imagination?? (

It is odd that NONE of their infant children are buried with them but adult sons are??

I appreciate all the help and discoveries and ideas that you've shared and would be thrilled if you come up with anything else!

Dallas

[AncestryFinder]

Now I've got a different strange problem!

Why would Ann GOULDEN, grandau of Thomas & Sarah GOULDEN be married as Hannah BOND? 

I checked and could find no marriage for her to a Mr BOND between 1881 and 1885 (

After much trouble, I finally found her brother, Pass GOULDEN [in 1871 Census]; Dass GOULDING in 1881; Pass CARTER in 1891 and as Pass GOULDING with wife Rachel and 5 children in 1901 Census and living at 3 School Lane in Lostock Gralam.

Pass GOULDING had married Rachel JONES in Congleton RD in 1892.

Ann GOULDEN / Hannah BOND
Pass GOULDEN / GOULDING  aka Pass CARTER

If Thomas & Sarah CARTER's widowed son William was Pass and Ann's father, he married abt 1874 to a Mary and had 6 more children.

But, the 1871 Census simply indicates that Pass and Ann are grandchildren, the listing doesn't indicate whose children they are and I suppose just because William is widowed, doesn't "necessarily" mean they are his, considering they did have a daughter Ann born abt 1840.

I'm really frazzled now!  Was Pass HADDOCK and Pass GOULDEN 1891 the same person?  If he was, why was he given his mother Ann's surname even though his parents were married?

On Ann's tombstone, her maiden name is listed as BOND.

?? Questions, questions and no answers (

Dallas

[Manchester Rambler]

I don't know whether this marriage is a piece of the puzzle (and don't have time to follow it up right now!), but it seemed interesting....

Marriages 1861-1865
CARTER   Ann
GOULDING  Henry
Great Budworth, St Mary

FreeBMD has the marriage Dec Q 1861, but transcribes Ann's surname as CORKER.

Deaths Dec 1870   
GOULDING  Ann    26   
Northwich 8a 173

Rambler

[DS]

Hi Dallas

I am very sorry for causing you problems . We are supposed to provide answers, not burden you with extra questions...but alas, here might be the source of even more questions.....

Have a look at a Martha Collier on the 1901 census at RG13/3591 Folio 112 Page 11 and check an 1890 marriage. They are listed as Collver in 1891 (apart from the daughter Eve who is still shown as Haddock and living with her grandfather, George Dickenson).

Is it the same Martha Dickenson or is it just another wierd coincidence ?

It looks like it could be the same lady to me. I cannot see another Martha Dickenson who married anyone called Haddock in the appropriate time frame.

DS