Hannah Walker Topliss born 1821

[Voirrey M]

Livia   Thank   you   for   letting  us   know   that       Thomas   jun.    born   IOM  &   your  direct  ancestor  Joseph  are
the    Gilbertsons  who   went  to  Australia.  Frances  already  mentioned  the  "1841"  As  it was   the  " first  "  it
contains  only  basic  info. "  rough " address    often  just   a   schedule   number  for   the   household/  placename  or farm  -housename  if   you   are   very   lucky /names/ages  /occupation/  where  born.   Enumerator   just  walked  along
the   road  stopping   at   any  house   along  the  way.  6/7 June  1841.
Your  couple   were  living    about   a  mile   or  so  uphill  from  KB  church   in  a  group  of  5  households /cottages
called  Leece  Lodge.  The  owner  of  one  or  all???  was   a  William  Broughton  born  England  of '  independent  means'
in  other  words  land  or property  owner. The  group   has   been  a  farm  ever  since  &  the   succesive buildings  are
converted  into   offices  for  the   mental  health  services.  The   nearest  hamlet  /little viiage   was  at  Strang.
Thomas  Gilbertson / Millwright/  22/  born England//  Hannah   /19  /born   IOM   and  Thomas  3months.

There   are  other   Gilbertsons   elsewhere  which may   explain  how  Thomas   came  to  IOM.

[Frances_mnb]

actually the 1841census was not the first (there were censuses in 1821 + 1831 in the Island) but the first for which the enumerator's books (ie details) survive - the enumeration was quite painstaking as can be seen from the instructions for enumerators, who were usually local residents of some standing.
The Gilbertsons were english - it would appear likely that another branch of the same family settled in Santan where the name was certainly present until recently (probably still there)  again use manxnotebook for some details.

The suicide of Thomas would most likely give more detail (there should be the inquest report) - I don't know when I can get back to the Island but the card index in the Manx Museum should give ready access to the newspaper entries.  A suicide would probably explain the lack of any MI - officially suicides should not be buried in hallowed ground but by that period church law was sometimes more forgiving than in the past - anyway I suspect his widow, who seems to have kept a pub near Laxey in mid 1840's would have been hard pressed.
The family name Walker looks to me as if from his Liverpool based partner Wm Walker - he should be readily traceable in Gore's Directories for Liverpool (which is where I presume Wm Cubbon obtained his information - Liverpool Central Library local history has a web presence and has been very helpful in the past - they have a card index of biographies to most leading businessmen.  Quite how a Derby based papermaker landed up in partnership with a Liverpool man on the Island seems a minor mystery to me.

[Voirrey M]

Frances   Is     it    not   correct  that  the "  1841"  census   is  the   first   to  contain  names  ?   I   did   check   at  MNH
library  for   someone  previously-----I   was   assured  the   previous   ones  were   headcounts   &   just   contain  numbers   &   therefore   would   be   of   no   use   to   Livia  looking  for   Hannah  &  family.

[Frances_mnb]

only a couple of enumerator books from the UK1831 census survive (one is in Channel Islands I think) - thus all you have now is the quite detailed head counts + statistical breakdowns for the 1831 thus from a family historian's perspective it is a 'useless' headcount - I was trying to be correct but you will be surprised just how detailed the 1831 headcounts are.

A search of the newspaper index would probably yield more info - the Santan John Gilbertson is a cartwright apprentice with no obvious family and marries a daughter of his boss - traded in Santan as a joiner etc tho in 1851c claims birth parish Malew (but not that I can find) - his age would fit as a brother to Thomas - it is an unusual name for the Island.  There is another Gilbertson of the same period - Catholic baptisms of a couple of children

[livia]

More fascinating information, thank you both. It makes me feel like jumping on the first plane and taking a look for myself but, alas, it won't be this year or next -possibly 2010. I am now a little confused about who committed suicide. A Thomas Gilbertson (my 86 year old father refers to him as 'Uncle Tom') came to Australia in the 1840s or 1850s so it can't have been him. His very fine house, now surrounded by suburbia, still stands and is a top drawer antique shop. As for the Walker connection, I found WALKER GILBERTSON, born 16/8/1794 in Skipton, Yorkshire and wondered whether this was the connection with Hannah. Still, Walker is not an uncommon name ...
Livia

[Voirrey M]

It    was    Thomas   Toplis   who   was  found  dead  at   the  Woodside  paper  mill        about   2   miles   inland   from

Leece  Lodge   with "    a    rope   around   his   neck  " 1840    Braddan.

[livia]

Poor Thomas and the Topliss family! I'm afraid you have been so helpful in providing information I have not had time to process it all yet. Do you know whether it was the Thomas who (apparently) hanged himself who was father of Hannah who married Thomas Gilbertson? If yes, I wonder whether Hannah's pregnancy out of wedlock contributed. And was it the same Thomas who had three children die within a few months in 1835?
As always, thank you.
Livia

[Frances_mnb]

Pregnant brides were almost the norm at that period - the cause was almost certainly financial - however all Toplis girls seemed to marry young.

On reviewing the evidence I'm strongly of the suspicion that the parents of Thomas Gilbertson were Richard G. + Mary Keegan - they have two Roman Cathothic baptims on island in 1826  - Richard died in 1840 (buried Braddan - possibly there might be a MI) Mary is found with several children at Ballafreer in Marown (just up the road from Strang area of Braddan) a publican but she is dead aged 55 in 1845 (english born in census) - no names clash with possibility of Thomas + John (the santan cartwright/joiner) being her children with arrival on Island c.1825 which might explain why John thought he was born in malew (maybe he was - I'm sure some catholic baptisms are missing) - one of the children of John emigrated to Tennessee.

[Voirrey M]

Burials  old   Kirk  Braddan/   Gilbertson   ----Elizth.   14  das.   Richard   &   Mary   Keegi   29.  03.  1826
Joseph   15   09. 07. 1834    //   Mary   55     02.01.1845                                 NO   MI'S

GILBERTSON   Richard          15  May   1840    [  no   age   on  film]   buried   in  plot   528  near  graveyard  wall  &
adjacent  to   Drinkwaters  of  Kirby   House  tombs.   OLD   BRADDAN   yard   SOUTH.

MI   "  In    memory  of/   Thomas   KEEGAN/   who  departed  this  life/ January 3rd  1815   aged  60  years  also
Richd.   GILBERTSON  died 12th  of   May/  1840  aged  68 years."  [  Plot no.   528]

The   burial   register  says " Thos.   Keegan found   drowned  in  Douglas  Harbour   buried  Jan  6th. "