Family of Robert & Ann COUPER (COMPLETED)

[DS]

In 1881 Caroline and the children are still at the same address in Westoe and you can see the details free of charge on http://www.familysearch.org/. John is not there and Caroline has become a Schoolmistress.

Ten years later....

1891

Newcastle upon Tyne RG12/4218 Folio 156 Page 17

Hew Steele Head M 40 Ship Broker Scotland
Annie H do Wife M 35 South Shields Durham
Evelyn H do Daur S 9 Scholar Jarrow Durham
James E do Son S 7 Scholar Northumberland Cullercoats
Annie W do Daur S 6 Scholar Newcastle upon Tyne
Hew do Son S 2 Newcastle upon Tyne
Stanley H do Son S 2 Newcastle upon Tyne
Reginald do Son S 3mo Newcastle upon Tyne
Caroline Green Visitor Wid 62 Lecturer of English Music Durham South Shields
Annie K do Visitor S 31 Lecturer of English Music Durham South Shields
Edith C Coward Visitor S 18 Durham Tyne Dock
+ 4 Servants

3 Grosvenor Villa, Jesmond, Newcastle upon Tyne

Annie Hebden Couper (Samuel’s daughter) married Hew Steele in Hexham in 1880.

DS

[DS]

My great grandfather, John Robert Fornear Couper, was born in South Shields on 1st November, 1860 and baptised at St. Hildas.   I believe this family of Robert and Ann Couper are his grandparents and his father is John Couper, Captain of Ship, who married Ellen Humble in 1859.

Just a couple of points about this...

The birth registration does not include the name Fornear and as far as I can see that name does not appear on the censuses either.

Have you now definitely ruled out the John Couper born 1824 in Queensferry, Scotland as the husband of Ellen Humble and the father of John Robert ? I understand that you were originally of the opinion that it was him and not this John Couper.

Have you seen the Marriage Certificate for John Couper and Ellen Humble which should provide their father‘s names and occupations plus addresses and witness names etc ?

DS

[gumball]

No I haven't ruled out either John Couper as I cannot find Death Certificates for the two John Coupers and the two Robert Coupers. 

The Marriage Certificate shows:
John Couper, Master Mariner-Merchant Seaman, Father: Robert Couper; Baker & Grocer. Ellen Humble Father: George Humble, Engineer.  Witnesses: John & Jane Waugh.  Address; South Shields.

Earlier information from Queensferry, Scotland, 1831, showed Robert as a Labourer, wife Elizabeth Ag/labourer, son Robert; Stone Quarryman and John aged then 15, Labourer.  This Robert Couper was deceased in 1853 which is also another reason he's not John's father as that would have been noted on his Marriage Certificate.  Which is why I queried this information with the Researcher.

It does seem more reasonable that the John Couper born in South Shields is the father to my great grandfather John Robert Couper.  The name Fornear comes from Ellen Humble's mother - Elizabeth Fornear.  It is still carried on today in the male line.

The 'James Freeman' (1851-1860) Built: Hartlepool - Owner: Robert Couper (s.o.) South Shields 30th April, 1851.
Samuel Couper and James Errington Ritchie, South Shields, shipowners each acquired 16/64ths.
Masters:  7/5/1851 - John Couper;  Alfred Cannute Swinfin Couper 10/5/1852 and Edward Charlton 7/3/1854.
The James Freeman was lost near Lemvig, Denmark, on 21/10/1860 when on passage from Hamburg to Newcastle.

John Couper was also listed as Master of 'Maria' on 25/1/1853.

As I sit here typing out this information I have collected it does seem to me that the Coupers of South Shields are more likely to be my ancestors.
Gumball

[DS]

The Marriage Certificate shows:  Father: Robert Couper; Baker & Grocer.

As I sit here typing out this information I have collected it does seem to me that the Coupers of South Shields are more likely to be my ancestors.

Especially since the marriage certificate says that his father was called Robert and that he was a BAKER and GROCER.

I think this might refer to that Robert.....

Possible Death Registration

1870 South Shields JFM quarter 10a 385

Robert Couper aged 84

I (and anyone else who wishes to join in) will have a look to see if we can find any other members of the family, later.

DS

[DS]

Hi

I think this deals with a few loose ends......

Possible Death Registrations

1893 South Shields OND quarter 10a 461

Caroline Green aged 64

1869 South Shields OND quarter 10a 352

William Couper aged 42

Regarding John, he (presumably) was alive around February/March 1860 if his son John Robert was born on 1st November, by which date John was deceased (you say). Since there does not appear to be a death registration for him on the UK indexes, do you think that he might have been “lost” with his ship on 21st October 1860 near Denmark ?

I think that just leaves the following (principal) members of the family to find......

Jane Couper c1819 (from IGI Batch C008209)
Elizabeth Couper c1817-1821 (from 1841 census)
Robert Couper c1820 (from IGI Batch C008209)
Ann Couper c1822 (from IGI Batch C008209)
Esther Louisa Couper c1828 (from IGI Batch C008209)

DS

[DS]

Here is Jane.....

Marriage Registration

1844 South Shields AMJ quarter 24 162

Jane Couper
James Errington Ritchie (Do you remember him from above ?)

1851

South Shields HO107/2399 Folio 209 Page 20

James E Richie Head M 38 Ship Broker & Dealer in Bonded Stores Northumberland North Shields
Jane do Wife M 32 Durham South Shields
George E Coward Visitor 2 Durham South Shields
+ 1 Servant

13 Albert Terrace, Westoe

DS

[DS]

1861

South Shields RG9/3738 Folio 42 Page 24

James E Richie Head M 48 North Sea Pilot Northumberland No Shields
Jane do Wife M 42 Durham So Shields

8 Winterbottom Street, Westoe

James Errington Ritchie died in 1864 and Jane remarried

Marriage Registration

1866 South Shields OND quarter 10a 757

William Jasper Capper
Jane Ritchie

DS

[DS]

Another daughter .......

IGI Batch C008208 contains the following two children of Robert and Ann Couper...

Mary Ann 1815 (who we have not seen before)
Elizabeth 1816 (as seen on the 1841 census)

Possible Marriage Registration

1840 South Shields AMJ quarter 24 173

Mary Ann Couper
William Coward

George E Coward, who was visiting Jane in 1851, is their son.

DS

ps More to follow later after the Pub Quiz (if nobody else has done it in the meantime)

[gumball]

Morning DS,
Thank you for all the work you are doing on my behalf....excellent.
I had a paid researcher do the earlier work and I guess I was "a green researcher" myself at that time so just took his work as true.
It has only been lately when I've gone more deeply into trying to find John's ship and death that I started to ask questions about his report.

John's wife Ellen Humble remarried on 5th December, 1864 to Robert Clark,  Dockyard Gateman, St. Hildas South Shields. Vol. 10a Page 798.  They had a daughter named Ellen J. Clark born 1865, died 1866.  Ellen Clark died 3/3/1872 age 42 years.

Looking forward to hearing from you again - good luck with the Pubquiz.
Gumball