Peter Pate of Pulford - a Liverpool mariner

[ShaunJ]

My ancestor Samuel Jones (b. circa 1800) a whitesmith/coachsmith married Sarah Ann Pate (b. circa 1806 - in the register as "Peit") in Liverpool in December 1826. Yesterday I found a marriage announcement in the Liverpool Mercury which says that Sarah was the daughter of the late Peter Pate of Pulford, Cheshire.

I also found an announcement in the Mercury of 4 October 1816 reporting that Peter Pate of the ship Vere "of this port" had died in New York on 19th November (presumably 1815).

Lancs OPC has a baptism for Sarah Pate in 1806, born 1806, parents Peter Pate, a mariner, and Margaret Burge, at St Nicholas, Liverpool.

FHS online has an 1810 marriage for Peter Pate, a mariner, and Margaret Baringer, a widow, at St Peter's Liverpool.

The IGI has a baptism at St Peter's for an Ann Pate bap 10 June 1815 daughter of Peter Pate and Margaret. No date of birth in the IGI.

That's all I know about Peter Pate so far.

Via Genesreconnected I am in touch with someone who has been researching the Pate family in the Pulford registers and they have found a Peter Pate baptism on 21 April 1765 which could be him. They also have siblings and ancestors for him going back a couple of generations.


Q's:

- How to be sure that my Peter Pate the mariner from Pulford is the one baptized there in 1765 ?
- Could there be a New York record of the death of Peter Pate in 1815 which might give his age?
- What about the ship Vere - might a log book or crew list survive from that 1815 voyage?
- Could Margaret Burge and Margaret Baringer be one and the same?
- what became of Peter's widow Margaret Pate?


Grateful for any input

[liverpool annie]

Hi Shaun !

You might try the Liverpool Maritime Museum ( I was wondering if he was involved in the Slave trade !!  ) ...... also I found this - seems the ship went to other places apart from America ! .......

Liverpool Mercury Friday October 8th 1813

For Jamaica 'THE VERE' Thos. GLEGG Master ,P. For Martha Brae Montego Bay and ports adjacent , with the first convoy from Cork

http://www.old-liverpool.co.uk/ships.html

I also found some Pate Seaman Wills ..... not your Peter but around the same time frame - relatives maybe ??

http://www.rootschat.com/links/03go/

[ShaunJ]

Hi Annie,

It seem the Vere was put on the New York run in 1815, and left Liverpool on September 15th under a Captain Dawson, bound for New York.

A year or so later she is back in Liverpool, and in mid-November 1816 she is being advertised on the Jamaica run under a Captain Askew.

I'm still trying to trace her movements in between.

[ShaunJ]

The Vere arrived in Liverpool from Jamaica at the beginning of October 1816 - I've just noticed that its arrival is announced in the same column of the 4 October Liverpool Mercury as the death notice regarding Peter Pate.

So news of Peter's death 11 months earlier must have arrived with the ship.

Presumably there was trade to be carried from New York to the West Indies, and then what looks like a full cargo from Jamaica to Liverpool.

[ShaunJ]

Just found this in the Universal Register 1792-98 extracts at http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/index.asp:

Gosport Hampshire

Pate Peter: Mate of the Roe-buck

[ShaunJ]

Roebuck, 44 guns, frigate launched at Chatham on 28 April 1774 and converted to a hospital ship in 1790. In 1799 she was converted to a troopship, and four years later to a guard ship. Broken up in 1811. She is best known for capturing USS Confederacy in 1781 along with HMS Orpheus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Roebuck

If that’s him in Gosport in the 1790’s ( how many mariners would there be with the name Peter Pate?) then that would fit with a 1765 birthdate. And if he was a warrant officer there may be something for him in the Admiralty records at Kew.

[ShaunJ]

I've just returned from Kew where I found the muster roll of the Vere for that voyage in 1815/16 ( it's in BT98/74).

It seems to have been an unlucky ship. The master, John Dawson, died in New York, on 4 December 1815. His number 2, John Mudge, was"drounded" 8 March 1816. The number 3, William Corkhill, then stepped up as master. 

It turns out that Peter Pate was just a seaman - one of 14 on the outward journey, every one of whom is shown as having "run" between 17 and 21 November 1815. A new crew of Liverpool seamen was signed on in New York for the next leg of the voyage in January 1816. 

Peter Pate is recorded as having "run" on 21 November 1815 - two days after he had died, if the death announcement is correct.

[liverpool annie]

Did you have fun ? ... you are sooo lucky being able to go !! 

So what do you think about things then ? .... he was still working after he died ??  what else did you find ?

Apparently there was smallpox on quite a few ships at that time and now I can't remember where I saw it but I believe the Roebuck took sailors from another ship that had "the pox" on board !! 

( I just realised .... that's how I got it .... association of ideas !!  )

[ShaunJ]

I did find something else at Kew, Annie: a Kings Remembrancer file from 1766 concerning a dispute over the valuation of the estate of Peter's grandfather William Pate, including 8 huge ( 3 feet by 3 feet) parchment pages of depositions by and about the family, and the value of the farm...I will need to go back and spend a lot of time there to read it all.

A kind lady from the Pulford Local History Society has sent me a copy of a 1774 map showing the Pate farm, and she tells me that the farmhouse is still there.