BIRD family Sirhowy/ Garndiffaith

[Arranroots]

I have my BIRD family in Bedminster, Somerset from 1871 onwards, but would now like to trace them back further.

They should be in Garndiffaith in 1861 (suggested by birthplace of youngest daughter), but not sure where in earlier censuses.  Details:

BIRD John Head, born c 1815 Sirhowy, miner in 1871
Catherine, Wife, nee CHARLEY, born c 1830 Bedminster
Catherine, dau, born c 1856 Garndiffaith
Mary Ann, dau, born c 1858, do
Esther, dau, born 1861, do
Sophia, dau, born c 1865

I have found a reference to a possible marriage for John and Catherine in Crickhowell in 1852.

There may be other children, including a John (twin of Esther?) and an older sibling Elizabeth.  There may also be a George Bird family nearby.

Also interested in BURT families in the area.  I don't ask much!! 

Very many thanks to any who investigate on my behalf - I owe you one!!

Arranroots

[pritch19]

Hi Arran

Came across these couple of Bird families completely by accident while looking at the 1841 Trevethin for own families.  I remembered someone had mentioned a Bird family in an earlier post, so here's what I stumbled over.

HO107/744/6  ED 10  Fol 5  Page 1

Pentwyn, Club Houses

George Bird            50      Iron Miner      N
Eliza Bird                50                            N
Thomas Bird           15      Iron Miner      N
William Bird            15      Iron Miner      N
Jeremiah Bird         10                            Y
Amy Bird                  8                             Y
Anne Bird                 1                             Y


And three doors away, also Club Houses, Pentwyn:

George Bird             20      Coal Miner     N
Elizabeth Bird          25                           N
Thomas Bird              2                           Y
John Bird                 22       Coal Miner    N


Could be the connection you were looking for maybe?  If I come across any more during my travels through the 1841 Trevethin, i'll let you know.

pritch   

[Arranroots]

Hi Pritch!   

Thanks for these and the short answer is - I have no idea!!  I will certainly keep them as they seem in the right area, although not a perfect "fit".  I have had such trouble with this family.  I'm sure there will be a link somewhere along the line!

I am VERY grateful for any help, so if you come across anything more please shout.  Sorry I can't provide addresses or anything to make it easier.

I was giving up hope...!!

Arranroots

[rhys]

Hi
Cannot find any John or George in 1861 Trevethin.
Or any of the valley parishes
among the missing  1000`s perhaps
 John is not in Brecs 1851 or Catherine.
Only John i can find in the valley parishes in 1851 per the
Gwent fhs index is as follows

1851 Trevethin
HO107  2449 564 93

BIRD John          32
         George      29
         Elizabeth    29
         Thomas         3
          Catherine     6 m

Rhys

[Arranroots]

Hi Rhys (and Pritch)

You know I think you may have cracked this!  At first sight it didn't look quite right, but how is this for a scenario:

1841 George and wife Elizabeth with brother John in Pentwyn.  I didn't previously have Thomas, but he's a bonus.  Relative ages are about right.

1851 John now has George and family with him.  Thomas hasn't aged much, but the ages of the others correspond.

1852 John marries in Crickhowell??  There is a reference in a directory to a John BIRD slate miner (but my JB is prob too humble!)

1861 lost?? or in Bedminster Edit - now found in Charlestown

1871 Bedminster, but ages are slightly astray.  George and Elizabeth are both 43 and their youngest child is 3.  He was born Wales, as were most of the children, although Eliz was Bristolian.

If only they could come back and tell us!  many thanks again.

Sue

[pritch19]

Hi Sue

The scenario certainly looks possible, I wouldn't take it as certain though without doing some more research.  Sometimes trying to turn census info and our own speculation into the facts as we would like them to be can be misleading.

From here I think the next step would be obtaining John and Catherine's wedding cert.  Is the marriage index you found, 1852 Sept Crickhowell Vol 11b page 169?  If so, it looks as if it is the right one to me, fits in perfectly.  If John's father is George Bird, that would tie in nicely with the 1841 census info.  Geographically, the distance between Aberysychan or Blaenavon to Crickhowell  is very small.

best wishes

pritch 

[Arranroots]

I appreciate your thoughts, Pritch.  I'm aware of the potential for making the info fit and am trying not to get too excited!  The marriage cert will give parents names and hence some degree of "matching" as you imply and I will now feel more confident to order it (I'm partly Scottish too!).

Meanwhile I have been having fun tracing the other siblings you have found for me!  Have also posted in Somerset for 1861 just in case.

Determined to sort out these BIRDs and BURTs!! 

Arranroots

[Arranroots]

Salutary lesson in this!!

Marriage cert for John BIRD  and Catherine CHARLEY arrived today.  Messes up my theory a treat!

They married 1852 Crickhowell.  John states his age as 30 (a few years out on the age from 1871), but worst of all his father is William BIRD an engineer!!

Who he??  I'm guessing if anyone had seen William on early censuses they would have said so?  John's profession is correct and from their daughter's birth cert I know Catherine's maiden name, so I feel this must be the right marriage.  No idea why she would be in Crickhowell when she was born in Bedminster however?? 

I can't find this family anywhere in 1881 and John dies before his daughter's marriage in 1888, so confirming his age is tricky.

Now what??

[Dai bark]

Hi,
I'm a Bird descendant, but she was a respectable Shropshire Ann nee Bird (living by Wellington) and three (maybe more) of her adult children left and came down to Nantyglo & environs by 1820.   Every so often a Bird witness or whatever turns up at an Ebbw Vale to Abergavenny region earlier 19C family marriage.   And each time I've looked at the numbers of nearby Bird families and promptly carefully forgotten them!    Mentioning this because if some day you find yours came from Wellington, you've got a whole lot more relations the moment you tell me!
Dai