Crescent on Shields- Turkish origin?

[Jean McGurn]

When Portsmouth got to the FA Cup Final I read an article about how when they played football in Turkey on one ocassion, some of the Turkish fans got annoyed because Pompey had the Turkish Crescent on their football badges.

The article went on to say that the badge was for coat of arms for Portsmouth itself and it had stemmed from the days of the Crusades in the 11th/12th century. Seems that knights from Portsmouth had done heroic deeds and because of this Saladin had permitted them to wear the crescent on their shields/coat of arms.

Now I am wondering if this is the case with other coats of arms? I have noticed, especially with the Irish shields, that quite often there are up to three displayed.

On the McGurn coat of arms for example there are 3 upturned crescents with a lion underneath them.

Would any of our experts know the answer to this?

Jean

[meles]

I think it means a second son in heraldry.

meles

[Valda]

'The golden star and crescent on a blue backgound have been the City's arms for 800 years. There are various theories about their origin but it is likely that the device was copied from the arms of William de Longchamp, Lord Chancellor to Richard I at the time of the granting of the Town's first definite Charter on 2nd May 1194.'

http://www.civicheraldry.co.uk/hants.html

Regards

Valda

[Jean McGurn]

Perhaps William de Longchamp was with Richard I in the Crusades.

Jean

[Little Nell]

meles is correct - the crescent is used as a sign of cadency for the second son of the bearer of the coat of arms.

However, the crescent is an heraldic charge in its own right and probably originated with the crescent moon.

William de Longchamp(s) was bishop of Ely and governed England as Chief Justiciar of England while Richard was away at the Crusades.

Since there is also a star on Portsmouth coat of arms, I would imagine that it has nothing to do with Turkish origins and more to do with celestial objects.  The background is blue perhaps indicating the sky and the moon and stars have always been used to navigate when on the high seas.  The motto is also a clue: "Heaven's light our guide"

Nell

[behindthefrogs]

I agree with Nell's conclusion about the Portsmouth Coat of Arms.

The use of the crescent to show the cadency of the second son applies to English Coats of Arms.  In Scotland it is used to show the second son in the fourth generation of the main line.  That is the great grandson of the bearer of the arms, who will nearly always be the head of clan.  In both cases it is a single crescent with its points upwards.

The crecent has a number of other meanings.  Travelling, receipt of an honour from the king and a family which has history in the crusades.

Irish Coats of Arms are a quandry because the Celts did not bear shields in battle and so there are not many Coats of Arms associated with Irish families.  Those that have them usually show their origin in English or other immigrant families.  However many knights who served in the crusades were rewarded with land in Ireland and so one would expect to find the crescents on their arms.

David