Author Topic: Hawker of pots/earthenware  (Read 44104 times)

Offline Steve G

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Re: Hawker of pots/earthenware
« Reply #36 on: Thursday 17 December 09 21:48 GMT (UK) »
About one and a half, as I remember  ;D
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')

Offline Incywincyspider

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Re: Hawker of pots/earthenware
« Reply #37 on: Monday 19 September 11 22:49 BST (UK) »
Hi...this thread is really interesting. 

I've found my third paternal great grandmother Mary A Harrison (possible maiden name of Johnson) who was a hawker of tin ware.  Her and her travelling Butler husband - Alexander Harrison lived in Leeds in a premises it says was lodgings for travellers needing overnight lodgings in 1871 census.  I'm struggling to find her before this or any marriage/birth certs for her and it says he's from Scotland but again I'm hitting walls to find him either.  Was there a separate census for travelling folk?

Later in 1891 their son, also Alexander, lives in Linthwaite, Yorkshire with travelling show people - Johnson's as a travelling servant.   

Any clues or hints anyone can give me re. tracking these ancestors would be really appreciated. 

Leah


Offline emmsthheight

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Re: Hawker of pots/earthenware
« Reply #38 on: Tuesday 20 September 11 00:02 BST (UK) »
Hi Leah

Welcome to Rootchat!  :)

It's great fun and you'll get loads of help!

I've been having fun with a friend's gypsy and hawker family and my Hoeys seem to have joined in too!

She has some Harrisons married to one of her Berry family.

As far as special records including census are concerned, they're special all right!  They're invisible on occasions!

I'm no expert, buit I'm told, and the evidence confirms it that none of these communities liked to appear in official records.  Also, the way of life endorses that.

For censuses, we have loads of blanks for the early censuses.

The ones we do have are such as "Group of families camping by road", "Behind the hedge" and even one in America "Living in wigwam by the lake"!

Even where they are more down to earth, often the birth place is given - incorrectly as the place where they are living - so did they say that to cover up, or did the enumerator just give up and write something to keep his job?

We reckon and I've seen it in articles as well, that many of the early bmd's just weren't registered, but on topoif thaty, if they moved between the birth and the baptism, the census, even if it's right wont lead to a baptism.

Presiumablky most of them were buried but of course deaths and burials were just where they fell, so if they were on the road away from any of their usual haunts you've had it almost.

Many of them didn't marry, or not officially in church or civil ceremony's.  It was just "Across the Brush" or "Over the broom", or similar - ie in front of their own people.

As I'm told true Romanies don't accept charities or benefits,  there is very little mention in charity records which have helped me no end with the poorer end of my families.

Keep plugging away though.  It's all great fun!

Have you seen the posts on travellers on Rootschat too?

Good luck!

Best wishes

Emms :)

Hoey : Louth, Dublin, Lancashire,
Diggle: Pendleton Lancashire,
Stickley: Dorset, Lancashire
Bockmann, Boedemann etc Artist, Europe and London

English Merchants in Brazil and Portugal especially Carruthers family

1st Battalion Connaught rangers WW1

Website:  Look  out for new website coming soon to replace Fells and Seas

Offline emmsthheight

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Re: Hawker of pots/earthenware
« Reply #39 on: Tuesday 20 September 11 00:06 BST (UK) »
PS This link will take you to the Travelling Peoples board on Rootschat.  They really know what they're talking about!   :)


http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,387.0.html

Enjoy!

Best wishes

Emms  :)
Hoey : Louth, Dublin, Lancashire,
Diggle: Pendleton Lancashire,
Stickley: Dorset, Lancashire
Bockmann, Boedemann etc Artist, Europe and London

English Merchants in Brazil and Portugal especially Carruthers family

1st Battalion Connaught rangers WW1

Website:  Look  out for new website coming soon to replace Fells and Seas


Offline hiyamarra

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Re: Hawker of pots/earthenware
« Reply #40 on: Monday 09 April 12 20:13 BST (UK) »
Just found this thread, its my first time on Rootschat
Very interested in what you have said Emms
My GG Grandparents were Keenan's, Berry's, McKenzie's & Knowles all Hawkers at some time in particular pots which I believe were made at the Jubilee pottery at Dearham
I would love to know what info you have on these families,
Keenan, McKenzie, Knowles, Berry, Gregg, Hutchinson, Allan, Strickland.

Offline emmsthheight

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Re: Hawker of pots/earthenware
« Reply #41 on: Monday 09 April 12 22:23 BST (UK) »
Hi  :)

Welcome top Rootschat!

These are actually the family of a good friend and her cousins.  I think Rootschat's calling me back!  I've been a bit distracted the last few months but this is two mails in twenty four hours that I couldn't ignore!

I like the Cumbrian name bu the way!

I am in Cumbria where these families spent time before going to Canada and America.

I will contact my friend, but the main characters were Thomas Berry son of John and \\ann, born near Penrith.  This family travelled.  Thomas married Martha Hutchinson, may children born in Penrith, marriage a mystery.

Also John Keenan from Ireland and Elizabeth McKenzie born Carlisle.  All travelled but graduated to Cockermouth where many are buried and others went to America - hence the census above.

We have evidence of licenced hawkers - and hawking without a licence! - selling pottery as travellers but also one branch were involved in manufacture of pottery and had a shop in the town.

I'll get back tomorrow though the family may see your post.   I just happen to live in the area and have made somed friends from the family across the water!

Best wishes

Enjoy Rootschat!

Emms  :)
Hoey : Louth, Dublin, Lancashire,
Diggle: Pendleton Lancashire,
Stickley: Dorset, Lancashire
Bockmann, Boedemann etc Artist, Europe and London

English Merchants in Brazil and Portugal especially Carruthers family

1st Battalion Connaught rangers WW1

Website:  Look  out for new website coming soon to replace Fells and Seas

Offline hiyamarra

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Re: Hawker of pots/earthenware
« Reply #42 on: Tuesday 10 April 12 09:11 BST (UK) »
Hi Emms
Thanks so much for getting back, I am also in Cumbria
John Keenan & Elizabeth McKenzie are my GG Grandparents, Thomas Berry & Martha Hutchinson are my GGG Grandparents.
I can find no record of Elizabeths birth nor Elizabeth & Johns marriage same for Thomas & Mary
I have tracked the Keenan's from entering England to their dispersal around UK, USA, Canada, Australia and Im close to linking NZ
However, rather than just collecting names & dates, I am more interested in going back in time slowly gathering as much information as I go, photo's, documents, letters, wills, stories, so that I can build as much social history as possible.
I have quite a lot on Keenan's and am now trying to understand the McKenzie link which I believe introduced the Keenan's to the pot trade. Do you know if there are records of Hawkers licenses in Cumberland
Any help would be wonderful
Cheers
Keenan, McKenzie, Knowles, Berry, Gregg, Hutchinson, Allan, Strickland.

Offline emmsthheight

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Re: Hawker of pots/earthenware
« Reply #43 on: Tuesday 10 April 12 12:12 BST (UK) »
Hi

Greta to hear back!

I'm afraid we've all had tyhe same lack of success with the marriages.  It looks as if a marriage over the broom might be the explanation - any!

I did find a baptism which we think is Elizabeth's in Carlisle.  They were camping behind the hedge close to where the bypass runs now on the census in 51!!

This was in Holy Trinity C hurch - now knocked down, at the botton of Wigton Road.  I'm old enough to remember it's spire!

I found anfew baptisms in there, but I don't have the record with me.  but I sent it to some other family and I may also have the email if they don't find it.

I'll send a link to my friend and I'll send you a private message with an email address in case I can send you some files.

I'm not sue how locakll you are,  but there are graves for the family in Cockermouth and also Dearham.   Some of my friend's family ha ve been to see the Cockermouth ones.  I keep thinking I will look at the Dearham ones but there's a lot going on at the moment.

Best wishes

Emms  :)
Hoey : Louth, Dublin, Lancashire,
Diggle: Pendleton Lancashire,
Stickley: Dorset, Lancashire
Bockmann, Boedemann etc Artist, Europe and London

English Merchants in Brazil and Portugal especially Carruthers family

1st Battalion Connaught rangers WW1

Website:  Look  out for new website coming soon to replace Fells and Seas

Offline hiyamarra

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Re: Hawker of pots/earthenware
« Reply #44 on: Tuesday 10 April 12 12:41 BST (UK) »
Emms
Your wonderful
Ive spent all morning trying to find Elizabeth on 41 & 51 census but no luck, tried lots of combinations of spelling but nothing.
I think I found John & Elizabeth (Parents) on 51 census spelled McKinsey they are at Holme Abbey but only with son Charles, who is Elizabeth with on 51
The other family you mention, is that Chuck and Joanne if so I am in regular contact
Im living in Carlisle, don't know if you know SW a Keenan descendant living in north yorkshire
She's coming over on Thursday and we plan to visit the archived in the morning and drive out to Dearham/Cockermouth in the afternoon
You're welcome to join us all/part day
Keenan, McKenzie, Knowles, Berry, Gregg, Hutchinson, Allan, Strickland.