Zipporah, Village of??

[Mausie]

Me Again,
Thought you might like to know Philip & Sarah's Children.
Jane Bartle bap 25/12/1840 St Blazey.
Elizabeth Ann Bartle bap 25/12/1841 Killhalland Moor, Tywardreath.
Philip Bartle bap 22/12/1846 Killhalland Moor, Tywardreath. Died 24/12/1846.
Louisa Bartle b 1848 bap 1850 Killhalland Moor, Tywardreath. Died 15/2/1852.
Caroline Bartle bap 9/7/1850 Tywardreath. Died  12/7/1850.
James Bartle bap 1852.
William Henry Bartle bap 31/10/1855 Tywardraeth.
Philip Bartle bap 2/4/1857 Tywardreath.

I didn't know, till I read your thread on Friday that Elizabeth had also come to Oz.
Whilst you're at the SA Society could you check if there's any record of when Philip arrived. I don't know whether they would have the passenger list for "Earl Dalhousie" that it looks like William may have come on, arriving 12/1/1874, London to Adelaide.
Also Kris mentioned his death in 1923, at Wayville, SA. Would it also be possible to check this out ? He married Jane Warren, nee Hicks. (2nd marriage for her.) I've been searching a long time for his death.

Did you know that Philip Bartle b 1857(husband's great-grandfather), married Grace Stephens Martin, your 3 x great-grandfather John's sister. It was Philip's 3rd marriage & Grace's 2nd.
27 years ago another relative spoke with one of their daughters, who said that Grace had been a childhood sweetheart of Philips' but that her father would not allow them to marry at that time. There must be some connection to Penzance as it was also handed down in our branch that Grace was from Penzance.
It was also said that Grace came to Australia aboard the "Lightning" to Port Adelaide, when she was 15. She was b c 1861. I see the family were still in Cornwall whatever time of the year the 1861 census was taken.
Cheers, Mausie.

[krisesjoint]

Hi Penny,

Lovely to have you back and Hi again Mausie,

Here are the death refs hope they help

BARTLE William  married aged 64 died 17 Aug 1923 Wayville rel not recorded res Wayville dist Ade 464 214

Now this looks like Jane so we know she was predeceased by her husband

BARTLE Jane widow aged 83 died 3 Oct 1936 Norwood rel William deceased husband res Norwood dist Nor 584 4309



but I do note an Agnes Wilson BARTLE died 1941 aged 81 at Unley res Unley rel William Dec Husband so I'm on a mission to work out who's who - they married in 1883 at Nth Adelaide, he was aged 24

Just looking at the earlier deaths and

William BARTLE Mar aged 53 died 3 Jun 1908 Kadina dis Dal 333 427 res Broken Hill rel G F Heavens (Son in Law)

mmm age fits so more investigation required, excuse me while I work through this

Cheers Kris 

[krisesjoint]

OK couldn't see it in SA but Broken Hill marriages tell me his wife is Mabel H 

HEAVEN George F = BARTLE Mabel H 1906 (3848)

Well now William and Jane HICKS had a daughter Mabel Elder 3 Feb 1883 Mitcham dist Ade 297 326 so it looks like the 1908 death is yours

I also note a couple of Births listed to William and Jane in Broken Hill

Lilly 1892 (8615)
Philip R 1895 (2155)

Now there are other marriages which look like they are William and Jane's children also marrying in Broken Hill if you don't have then.

So William and Jane do appear to have moved to Broken Hill after last birth here in 1890. Interesting that we now have all three siblings in Broken Hill at some stage.

Heres this death in case you don't have it. Let me know if you need any more

BARTLE Grace Stevens widow died 14 Nov 1942 aged 82 Hospital Parkside rel Philip Dec Husband res Winkie Dist Nor 657 6234

Good Luck Friday Penny

Cheers Kris 

[krisesjoint]

Mausie,

I see those two Gwinear baptisms (BARKELL) I think one of those must be your man. Looking at it I see

James was buried in St Erth 21 Dec 1823 aged 44 (of Crowan)

Could be interesting to note that John 4  Apr 1824 aged 72 and Temperance 19 May 1824 aged 75 were buried in St Erth. (Both listing res as Gwinear)

John BARTLE tinner of Gwinear = Temperance TREGENZO 18 Nov 1775 St Erth

William BARKEL = Ann INGRIM 21 Oct 1770 Gwinear

MMM Not very helpful I am afraid. James and Grace used both William and John in their children's names but  by what I can spot, but did not use  Ann or Temperance.....Kris 

[Mausie]

Hi Kris & Penny,
You are just a mine of information Kris, I can't thank you enough for all the info you're posting.
I started the Bartle Family History about 10 years ago, and then gave it away to concentrate on my side, as I couldn't seem to make any more progress.
And then in the space of a few days you have opened up so much for me!

I also thought that John Bartle and Temperence nee Tregenza were a fit. I have a list of their children and all the names were a fit from the previous generation.
I then had John's father as another James Bartle d 1757, who married firstly to Mary Nickles b 1698, and then to Martha Nickles who d 1788.
I have a list of their children that I will pass onto Penny.

So it looks probable doesn't it that the William Bartle dying in 1908 was Philip's brother William Henry. Yes Jane & he had at least 6 children that I found.
Elizabeth, Lily and Philip R died as children and Emily F, Mabel Elder, James seem to have survived.
I have jotted down that Emily F ? married Ernest R Harvey, Broken Hill, does this tally with your findings ? I had also put a query beside Mabel Elder m Howard Gibson, but unfortunately have not put where I got that from.
Your marriage of Mabel to G Heaven looks more likely.
What other matches did you have for their children ?

Does this mean that the William Bartle/Barkle coming on Earl Dalhousie is probably not our William ?

You also have finally solved the mystery of when Grace Bartle died, I've been looking for ever for that as well. Winkie Dis Nor, is Norwood in SA, is it ?
Both her children from the 2nd marriage were still in WA, but she must have gone back to be near children from the first marriage. She had previously been married to Thomas Rowe Tonkin (he had been married before), and had about 6 children to him.

I can see now that I will be needing to send away for a few certificates to confirm all of this.

Thanks a million,
Mausie.

I have the William Bartle married to Agnes Roberts, and a list of their children, they are not connected that I know of.

[krisesjoint]

Hi Mausie,

Glad to help.

NSW BMD's are online

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm

Those you mention are there. I did notice another Mabel marrying in Broken Hill but as we had Son in Law GF Heavens I discounted that one. There are other Mabels born in NSW but not in Broken Hill.

I have 6 children in SA and two in Broken Hill to William and Jane

SA ones are

Elizabeth BARTEL 24 Feb 1879 Mitcham Dist Ade 215 188
Emily BARTELL 1 Jan 1881 Mitcham Dist Ade 253 271
Mabel Elder BARTLE 3 Feb 1883 Mitcham Dist Ade 297 326
Elsie Etheline BEARTLE 16 Mar 1885 Mitcham Dist Ade 347 187
William BEARTLE 6 Jan 1888 Unley Dist Ade 409 425
James BARTLE 14 Apr 1890 Unley Dist Ade 458 182

+ the two in Broken Hill I provided earlier

Not sure why you are not keen on the Earl Dalhousie any more. I still like it. Hopefully Penny will get a chance to check it. I see she was online very early this morning probably before she headed off so she would have seen your posts but not mine. I hope she manages to pop in before she heads off researching tomorrow to see that I think the 1908 death is your William not the 1923 one.

Parkside and Norwood are suburbs of Adelaide. Winkie is a long way away in the Riverland probably about a 3 hour drive. (Not too far from Berri) She must have been in Adelaide in Hospital. I will see if I can spot any of the children in the Riverland.

Cheers Kris 

[Mausie]

Hi Kris,
I think I am confusing myself with all this info ! I thought the entry for William in the BISA coming o the EARL Dalhousie, also had him dying in Wayville, 1923.
That's why I made that comment. Lucky you're nutting it out.

The extra children to William & Jane make sense now that I look at Philip Richard's death cert in 1895. It states 2 Boys 4 Girls Living, 1 Girl deceased, then Lily died as well a bit later. I hadn't found the two other entries. Tricky with all the different spelling of the name.

Cheers, Mausie.

[krisesjoint]

Hi again Mausie,

No that must have been me causing the confusion. The BISA entry was very limited. I just wondered about his age and mentioned the possible 1923 death in connection with it.

Doesn't look like Grace was with Tonkin children. She didn't have much luck with her children - 4 certainly died very young. 

Adeline Lillian 20/9/79 Moonta Mine dist Dal 228 131 = Joseph ALI aged 22 father James res grooms sister Parkside 30 Aug 1899 dist Ade 200 720
only one daughter in SA and then no further mention that I can see.
Gladys Melinda ALI 10 Aug 1900 Unley Dist Ade 663 72 = 1921 in WA
then I see a son James Phillip ALI Boulder WA 1905 (542)

There is a death for a Joseph in Boulder in the WA indexes 
Haven't spotted Adeline

Charles Sydney 8/2/83 Eastwood Dist Nor 297 248 - can't see anything further on him here.

There is a marriage for a Charles S in the WA indexes in Boulder WA in 1912 and a death for a Charles S in 1853 

Albert Percy 14 Jan 1885 Eastwood Dist Nor 343 81 - 20 Oct 1885 Eastwood Dist Nor aged 9 months of Eastwood Dist Nor 149 322

Albert Percy Cleveland 20 Jul 1886 Eastwood Dist Nor 377 370 - 21 Dec 1888 Eastwood Dist Nor aged 2 years and 5 months of Eastwood Dist Nor 175 284

Ruby Pearl 18 Sep 1888 Eastwood Dist Nor 424 194 - 25 Nov 1891 Eastwood Dist Nor aged 3 years of Eastwood Dist Nor 198 156

Olive Myrtle May 20 Aug 1890 Eastwood Dist Nor 465 143 - 5 Jan 1892 Eastwood Dist Nor aged 15 months of Eastwood Dist Nor 199 387

Kris 

[Mausie]

Hi Kris,
Grace's children from her marriage to Philip Bartle 1898, were two girls Dorothy Grace b 25/2/1900 who married Bill Tucker, and another Olive Myrtle b 9/7/1901, who married Hugo Olson. Myrtle certainly stayed in WA, and I thought Dorothy did too. I wonder who she was with in SA ?

She remained in WA (after Philip died in 1902), till at least 1916, when she was listed as a Storekeeper in Boulder with stepson Philip Archibald Bartle. Philip's son from his first marriage to Mary Mann.

Cheers, Mausie.