Author Topic: "Heir Hunters"  (Read 96746 times)

Offline Nick29

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Re: "Heir Hunters"
« Reply #279 on: Thursday 02 July 09 23:10 BST (UK) »
I wonder if Neil from F & F (or anyone else) can answer a question ...... in a case where there are several beneficiaries that have been traced, what happens if some people agree to sign the agreement with you, and some don't ?  Surely the claim has to be made on behalf of all the claimants, doesn't it ?   This always has me wondering whenever I see a case on Heir Hunters when there's lots of beneficiaries.
 
RIP 1949-10th January 2013

Best Wishes,  Nick.

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Offline mother25

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Re: "Heir Hunters"
« Reply #280 on: Thursday 02 July 09 23:50 BST (UK) »
I don't know of course, but I vaguely recall from one of the series of programmes that someone did decline and decided he could do his own research, but that was after he had been told there was a possibility of him inheriting. Prior to that he had no idea who the relative was who had died  :o  I thought that was a bit churlish after F&F had done a lot of the research already  ???

Offline MarkyP

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Re: "Heir Hunters"
« Reply #281 on: Friday 03 July 09 10:15 BST (UK) »
Well todays programme was fascinating. Now they've add a bit of historical context to the cases, a bit like Who Do You Think You Are, it makes it even more interesting for us Family Historians  :) And so it proved today as my 2 x Great Grandad and his family travelled on the Empress of Ireland when they emigrated to Canada in 1909, I hadn't realised that it sank just 5 years later!
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Offline mother25

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Re: "Heir Hunters"
« Reply #282 on: Friday 03 July 09 12:38 BST (UK) »
Really enjoyed today's programme. I felt so sorry for that lady who got absolutely nothing because her sister-in-law/best friend just hadn't made a will. The beneficiaries were blood relatives and the poor woman was obviously very upset by it all, especially because the bungalow had originally been in her family for many years, but of course when her brother died his wife inherited and then her blood relatives after her death.
I would say this programme should convince anyone who hasn't yet made a will to do so without delay. It doesn't cost much but it will make life so much easier for your relatives after your death, and of course your wishes will be carried out as you wanted.
My connection was with Ernest Phythian, which was another interesting tale. I don't know all the details as it concerns a cousin and she hasn't told me the full story...possibly because it's complicated and she may not know it all  ;D


Offline dobfarm

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Re: "Heir Hunters"
« Reply #283 on: Friday 03 July 09 13:27 BST (UK) »
Hi, I'm wondering if I can (probably) be a pest, and ask ...

My Gt-gt-grandfather left his estate to be divided between his three children; two daughters, who never married ... and my gt-grandfather who had emigrated to Australia.  The will stated that gt-grandfather's share would be waiting for him when he returned to England ... but having married, and fathered a huge brood of children, he never did return to England.

Obviously, my question is ... what would have happened to his third share of his father's estate?  Could my late grandmother's tales of "money in Chancery" have any basis in fact?

Hi

I would contact the legal people!! on that! if its more resent times,  But if he had a huge brood of sibling, I think any money will be well spread/shared out even with interests on the money of his share of the will
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Intended as a Guide only in ancestry research.-It is up to the reader as to any Judgment of assessments of information given! to check from original sources.

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Offline Nick29

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Re: "Heir Hunters"
« Reply #284 on: Friday 03 July 09 13:46 BST (UK) »
Hi, I'm wondering if I can (probably) be a pest, and ask ...

My Gt-gt-grandfather left his estate to be divided between his three children; two daughters, who never married ... and my gt-grandfather who had emigrated to Australia.  The will stated that gt-grandfather's share would be waiting for him when he returned to England ... but having married, and fathered a huge brood of children, he never did return to England.

Obviously, my question is ... what would have happened to his third share of his father's estate?  Could my late grandmother's tales of "money in Chancery" have any basis in fact?

You need to find out who was the executor of the will - you should be able to find this out from the UK Probate Office.  It's quite possible that the money is still being held by a solicitor, and this will have been attracting interest, so could well be a tidy amount.

RIP 1949-10th January 2013

Best Wishes,  Nick.

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline FraserandFraser

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Re: "Heir Hunters"
« Reply #285 on: Friday 03 July 09 13:52 BST (UK) »
Obviously an estate cant be distributed until the full existent of a the family is known, and there are times when this can be a very drawn out process, but once the full extent is known then we can calculate the exact share each beneficiary is entitled to. So it makes no difference who an heir is represented by or even if they can do the work themselves.
With these cases currently a claim of a single heir is lodged with the TS however you only have to prove that the possible heir has greater entitlement than the crown. That means that at no time do you have to prove the full extent of the family or even that you have found the closest heir. It is only when the oath is sworn at probate that you have to discuss the make up of the family, to the best of your knowledge at the time.

This being the case you can have a single family that is represented by more than 1 firm of genealogists, some heirs doing it them self and some doing nothing hoping it will all be sorted out.

Having said that it makes no difference who or if any one represents an heir there are other point that must be said at this time.

I have no objection in anyone doing it themselves, especially when there is a close relationship and the heir knew the deceased, some times we are only contacting heirs knowing that it is likely they will go by themselves, because we have done the research and there is an off chance we may recover some costs, remember at the start of a case there is no way of knowing what degree of heir we will find. I do however think we are a little hard done by if we have done all the work in finding the heir only to miss out because when the heir really didn't know the deceased.

There are huge differences between different firms of genealogists, some will only work the easy, profitable stems of a family and sign contracts at a very low % and then hope that no one does the research on the other stems so they can pick up an extras fee for writing a report.

There is also a huge level of service difference between F&F and most of our competitors. We are luck and have a big office with the support staff to make sure heirs are kept fully up to date, smaller firms some times have to make calls from toilets have no access to there files and really are hoping that the bigger firms are doing all the real work so there clients are there to come in at a later date.

Fees are never talked about on Heir Hunters because it is in our contract, with the producers. The main reason for this is because we don't want to set a precedents, every case is different and thus the fees are very different.  I have seen fees of between 1% and 40% however they represent different cases entirely. A low fee i.e. one that is between 1 and 5% is only offered by very few firms they are the ones hoping to put in charges in at later dates for other things and usually when they are behind another firm in contacting an heir. Fees between 5% and 10% are again trying to undercut another firms fees because the firm is second of third to an heir, or if the estate is very big or the heir very close the the dec and thus the research is very easy. Standard fees are between 10% to 1/3 on English cases depending on a few factors, and up to 40% on US cases this is because the fee pays for more than just the genealogist in the states, because there legal system is a lot more complicated attorneys have to be instructed and the fee covers there cost as well. VAT is also payable (at the date the contract was signed, not when it is paid out).

Hope I have answered a few questions and remember that if you do get approached by one of us the cheapest fee is not always the best and never pay upfront.

Offline Nick29

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Re: "Heir Hunters"
« Reply #286 on: Friday 03 July 09 16:46 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the frank answers, Neil.  You must have to turn over a lot of cases every week to make a profit, with the costs of staff wages for all the people in your office, and the cost of having an office in Central London, which I suppose has to be a "must" in your line of work. 
RIP 1949-10th January 2013

Best Wishes,  Nick.

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Deb D

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Re: "Heir Hunters"
« Reply #287 on: Saturday 04 July 09 01:47 BST (UK) »
Quote from: Deb D on Thursday 02 July 09 21:57 BST (UK)
Hi, I'm wondering if I can (probably) be a pest, and ask ...

My Gt-gt-grandfather left his estate to be divided between his three children; two daughters, who never married ... and my gt-grandfather who had emigrated to Australia.  The will stated that gt-grandfather's share would be waiting for him when he returned to England ... but having married, and fathered a huge brood of children, he never did return to England.

Obviously, my question is ... what would have happened to his third share of his father's estate?  Could my late grandmother's tales of "money in Chancery" have any basis in fact?



You need to find out who was the executor of the will - you should be able to find this out from the UK Probate Office.  It's quite possible that the money is still being held by a solicitor, and this will have been attracting interest, so could well be a tidy amount.



Many thanks for this advice, ... I have a copy of the will (probate granted Feb 1896), which names all three children (including his son "on his return to England") as his Executors.  Doesn't help much, does it?

Obviously the sisters couldn't have just lived off their savings while they were waiting for their brother to return (unmarried daughters of a surgeon, they were always just provided for, and probably hadn't previously needed to have personal savings as such), so I have to assume there was some sort of arrangement made.  Any idea where I'd find any record of this, if it wasn't just in a letter from the brother?
I live in Sydney, Australia, and I'm researching: Powell, Tatham, Dunbar, Dixon, Mackwood, Kinnear, Mitchell, Morgan, Delves, & Anderson