Author Topic: Croydon Betchleys  (Read 9871 times)

Offline Valda

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Re: Croydon Betchleys
« Reply #18 on: Friday 15 August 08 09:05 BST (UK) »
The marriage certificate won't - no parents names given on Tasmania marriages that early. Parents names I believe were not added until 1896 and they certainly are not on the two Tasmania marriage certificates I hold pre that period. Ditto death certificates for lack of information prior to 1897. After that you get place of birth (if known).

http://www.archives.tas.gov.au/guides/genealogy

I think Tasmanian convict records are very interesting because they are more detailed than New South Wales re the treatment/puinshments, work on chain gangs etc of the convicts lives, but like all convict records, less for their genealogical details because Australian officals would be less interested in knowing that.

'In 1824 the British Transportation Act was passed, and it included a provision that there should be delivered to the contractor (or shipping agent) a certificate specifying concisely the Description of his or her Crime, his or her Age, whether married or unmarried, his or her Trade or Profession, and an account of his or her Behaviour in Prison before and after Trial, the Gaoler's observations on his or her temper and Disposition, and such information concerning his or her Connexions...'

But by 1827 the Governor of Tasmania was still complaining about the lack of information being sent with the convicts from England "At present we stand in the extraordinary predicament in a Penal Colony of not being able to prove that the offenders transported from England are Convicts."

Certainly from 1827 onwards for Tasmanian convicts arriving you can get information from this source

'the Muster Master's duties was to examine the person of every Convict before landing ... to take down their description - History of their former modes of life - names of Relations, and connections, and the exact nature of the crime which they have been previously convicted of, and which led to their Transportation.' and Former Course of Life as may have come to the Gaoler's knowledge.....'

which is much more helpful and detailed than for New South Wales convicts, but by 1827 the James you are interested in would have served at least 8 years of his sentence.

http://www.archives.tas.gov.au/guides/Con_guide.pdf


Starting with records over here before pursuing Tasmania records which as I've said are very interesting in themselves and will give you far greater insights into James Betchley's life in Tasmania, but may not help you for his origins in this country, have you checked the Sussex Family History Society baptism index for possible candidates for James to establish a wider picture of possible baptisms in Sussex than that supplied by the IGI? As far as I know it isn't a county wide index for the period you are interested but it will cover some parishes not found on the IGI such as Hartfield for instance.


http://www.sfhg.org.uk/baptisms.html


Regards


Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline betchleytree

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Re: Croydon Betchleys
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 24 July 10 16:48 BST (UK) »
Hi Roy
I'm penny, we've spoken before.

James Betchley was my G G Grandfather John's older brother and he was definitely in England on 5th July 1825 as he was executor of his father's will. I have downloaded a copy.

I thought I was alone in thinking that James came back (or never went) to Australia - it just didn't add up. I have lots of documentation and I am sure beyond doubt that there was only one James. He has occupied of a lot of my time one way and another.

Just FYI, my GG Grandfather John married Susan Sarah Hesketh Wise on 26th May 1833 in Mitcham, Surrey. Witnesses were James Betchley and Elizabeth Eshter Hatch. John and his wife settled in Croydon - I believe both families were close.

Penny

Penny

Offline Roy G

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Re: Croydon Betchleys
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 25 July 10 06:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Penny
Yes it is confusing about james, and I too am left in a quandry. 
I am almost certain he never went to Taz or someone else was sent in his place, but if so, who was that someone who then married and died  out there in 1840 leaving an entire family with the Betchley surname?  Perhaps we can chat about it more privately.  Drop me a line at *
Roy


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Offline Determined

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Re: Croydon Betchleys
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 25 July 10 21:59 BST (UK) »
Hello again - after quite a break.

Well, what a headache this James is to us all.  I now feel inclined to put aside the transported James altogether.

Just a thought: from the records, the transported James was age 28 at the time of his arrival in Tasmania on 12th January 1820. This gives a birth date of circa 1791/2.  (James Betchley snr. and Mary Isted married in 1794). He also seemed to be something of a habitual lawbreaker by nature.  The Croydon James, who seemed much steadier on the face of it,  died in early 1884, age 87 - which ties in better with the baptism date of 30th September 1796 in East Grinstead.  Not that it proves anything at all, of course!

But, one will always wonder........!
Betchley (Sussex/Surrey), Carter & Cass (Essex), Goldhawk & Hazell - all sp. (Surrey & Middx.), Hancock (Merton), Patterson, Russell & Matthews (Surrey & Middx.), Sandaver (Lnd. & Surrey), Knell (Lnd., Herts. & Surrey).


Offline vanstrada

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Re: Croydon Betchleys
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 26 June 16 21:19 BST (UK) »
Daly Cork to Australia,Smalley England to Australia,McGrath Australia,Leighton Wakefield to Australia.

Offline vanstrada

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Re: Croydon Betchleys
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 26 June 16 21:23 BST (UK) »
James Betchley
He  actually came to Australia  as Betchley  and due to  a  clerical error he became Beachley  and kept the name .
Born in East Grinstead on 30 Sep 1796 to James Betchley and Mary Isted. James married Sarah Walton and had a child. He passed away on 8 Jun 1840 in Hobart, Tasmania, Australia.
Name:    James Betchley
Vessel:    Dromedary
Convicted Date:    24 Mar 1819
Voyage Date:    Sep 1819
Colony:    Tasmania (Van Diemen's Land)
Place of Conviction:    Sussex, England
Daly Cork to Australia,Smalley England to Australia,McGrath Australia,Leighton Wakefield to Australia.

Offline vanstrada

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Daly Cork to Australia,Smalley England to Australia,McGrath Australia,Leighton Wakefield to Australia.

Offline Roy G

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Re: Croydon Betchleys
« Reply #25 on: Monday 27 June 16 03:50 BST (UK) »
Sorry vanstrada.  The Will link you sent is one of those internal Ancestry links.  When clicking on it, non members like me just get an invitation to join.
Roy G

Offline vanstrada

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Re: Croydon Betchleys
« Reply #26 on: Monday 27 June 16 18:43 BST (UK) »
Sorry about that .
 :(
Daly Cork to Australia,Smalley England to Australia,McGrath Australia,Leighton Wakefield to Australia.