Frank Lesley London born 1935?

[andycadman]

I have a marriage certificate for Frank Lesley London (age given 21) and Margaret Rose Arnold (age given 20) on Dec 24 1955 at Eckington Parish Church. I have found the birth of Margaret Rose in the June qtr. of 1935 in Worksop.  From the Frank Lesley's details he should have been born around 1935. I have looked at the birth index for this period and found nothing. The London family are from the Chesterfield district. Can any one please help me find the birth of Frank Lesley London (age given as 21 in Dec 1955). His father on the Marriage certificate is given as William James London (Deceased) and I have found his probable death in the June qtr of 1953 in Chesterfield.

If any one can help me solve this problem it would be really appreciated.

Andy

PS I have also been unable to find the marriage of his father William Joseph in the Chesterfield area.  Could he perhaps have been registered originally under a different last name?  I am unsure what to do next.

[CaroleW]

From the Frank Lesley's details he should have been born around 1935. I have looked at the birth index for this period

I've checked the GRO index 1933-1936 but no trace

Is there any possibility he was adopted or born in Scotland 

Could he have been illegitimate and taken the London surname if his mother then married?

[CaroleW]

William J London was 51 when he died in 1953 so was b 1901/02

Freebmd only has one William J (James) London in that period and he was b Holborn Middlesex

[andycadman]

Many thanks for your thoughts CaroleW.  I too was thinking along the lines that he may have been illegitimate. Frank Lesley are an unusual set of first two names. Does any one know a data base on which I could do such a search for the mid 1930's.  As you said I think that he probably adopted the London name later.

I believe Frank Lesley's father William Joseph came from this family group in the 1901 Census:
Registration district: Chesterfield 
Sub registration district: Bolsover 
Dora London 9  dgt
Eliza London 40  wife
Ellen London 5  dgt
Frederick London 38  head
Robert London 6  son
William London 1  son
Arthur Norman 22  step son
Horace Norman 16  step son
Wilfred Norman 13  step son
 
The William was infact William Joseph and tallies with the BMD.

I think that the William James from London (the city) may be a red hearing.

One other interesting fact is that William James London  had a brother called John Henry London who coincidently died in the same quarter in Chesterfield. I think the age at death for both of them may be wrong.

It is very frustrating, any thoughts would be very welcome.

Thanks again CaroleW

Andy

[CaroleW]

A longshot - Have you though about treating Lesley as a possible surname and checking the GRO index for 1934 and 1935 under Lesley

If William Joseph London was born 1899 and not 1901/02 as his death suggests - he was in his middle 30's when Frank was born which suggests he could have married a while beforehand and had other children so you may be looking for a marriage from 1910 onwards - could even be a second marriage

William James London Sept qtr 1899  Worksop 
Volume: 7b  Page: 45

A copy of his death cert MAY show his wife's name but only her christian name - not her maiden name.  It's not guaranteed as anybody could report a death

[CaroleW]

A longshot - Have you though about treating Lesley as a possible surname and checking the GRO index for 1934 and 1935 under Lesley

I've just checked 1934-1936 - zilch!!

[andycadman]

Thank you again for trying CaroleW.

The only way forward may to be send for the death certificate . . . . . but again that is likely to yield Zilch. 

Perhaps a longer trawl over all the possible years for a marriage of William Joseph might yield a result.

Andy

[andycadman]

The Death certificate for William James London arrived today.  Very informative and tragic but does not yet quite link him with Frank Lesley - but I am confident that they are linked.
 
William James died tragically in a mining accident in 1950, but the death was not registered until three years later. This is due to the fact that they were unable to recover the body from the mine until sometime later and then there were coroners hearings. The age now fits with the birth and we have the correct person. His brother John Henry also died in the same accident, (in fact 80 miners in total died in the tragedy).
 
You can find the details of the accident here (You will find a widow Tilda London mentioned):
 
http://www.youandyesterday.co.uk/articles/Cresswell_Colliery:_Eighty_men_entombed_in_coal_mine
 
All the men listed in the disaster are listed here. You will find both William James and John Henry here:
 
http://www.dmm2.org.uk/uknames/u1950-02.htm
 
You will find a report on the accident here:
 
http://www.dmm2.org.uk/uknames/8574-01.htm

The question is how  to find Frank Lesley London's Birth around 1935, probably under a different last name and link him more strongly with William James London on the Death Certificate.

One lesson to be learnt here is that the registration of a death may be several years after the actual death. William James London died on 6 September 1950 but the death did not apear on the indexes until 11 May 1953.

Any help to move forward here would be appreciated.

Andy

[CaroleW]

Hi Andy

I recently visited the world heritage site at Blaenavon and went on the tour of the pit there.  A very humbling experience when you realise the conditions miners worked under.  That report you included sent shudders down my spine as that was one of the thoughts in my mind when I was down there - how could anybody survive a disaster in those conditions.

Any help to move forward here would be appreciated.

We now know that although William was 51 when he died - it wasn't in 1953 - it was in 1950 which puts his birth at 1899/1900 and not as we thought earlier - 1901/02 so there is every possibility that this is him on the 1901 census for Bolsover Derbyshire

Frederick London 38 b Suffolk adingham - colliery carter
Eliza   40 b Suffolk Ashfield
Dora   9  b Suffolk Hackerton
Robert   6   b Suffolk Hackerton
Ellen   5   b Suffolk Hackerton
William   1  b Derbyshire Barlborough
The following are stepchildren
Arthur Norman 22  Suffolk Halne?
Horace Norman 16  b London
Wilfred Norman 13  b Suffolk Denham
RG13; Piece: 3254; Folio: 104; Page: 23

Births

William James London September qtr 1899  Worksop 
Volume: 7b  Page: 45