Author Topic: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!  (Read 10433 times)

Offline ali607

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Re: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 17 August 08 00:51 BST (UK) »
well im not too good at these kinda things but my first impression was somebody doodling - you knbow like we all do when we're on the phone? i know they didnt have phones lol but it is kinda like that - we colour in squares n triangles n stuff when were preoccupied doing summat else...

Alison
Surname interests:<br />Salter, Fulford, Woodcock, Finney, Tissington, Driscoll, Shea, Maxfield, Collier, Hughes, Williams, Petty, Pearson, Prescott, Baldwin, <br /><br />Area interests:<br />West Riding Yorkshire: Rotherham, Hemsworth, Darfield, Sheffield<br />Worcestershire/Staffordshire: Oldbury, West Bromwich, Halesowen, White Heath<br />Lancashire: Wigan, Aspull, <br />Nottinghamshire: Worksop<br />erbyshire:alfreton, ironville, codnor

Offline Deb D

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Re: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 17 August 08 01:30 BST (UK) »
Could it have been a roster or a gardening (planting) plan, ... drawn up for the benefit of workers who could not read?  ???
I live in Sydney, Australia, and I'm researching: Powell, Tatham, Dunbar, Dixon, Mackwood, Kinnear, Mitchell, Morgan, Delves, & Anderson

Offline nickgc

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Re: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 17 August 08 01:35 BST (UK) »
How large is it MissM?  What is sheet size, large dark square size, and small square size?

I read yesterday that the estate was 2400 acres, and thought that it could be some type of "plat" layout for the property.  Without any indication of what the many symbols might signify, it is very difficult.

Nick

McLellan - Inverness
Greer - Renfrewshire
Manson - Aberdeen & Orkney
Simpson - Hereford, Devon, etc.
Flett - Orkney
Chisholm - Scotland
Wishart - Orkney
Shand - Aberdeen
Pirie - Aberdeen

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Offline clematised

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Re: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!
« Reply #12 on: Monday 18 August 08 20:32 BST (UK) »
My thoughts were more in the sewing plans possibly a cross stich pattern

Edna
Scotland and Liverpool Wilson,Conning,Cooper.Marshall
Cumberland,Liverpool, Anderson,Harrison
India, Liverpool, Lloyd.
Hollyhead anglesey,Wales, Liverpool, Jones,Williams
Llangwyfan,Aberffraw. Hughes/Griffiths


Offline stoney

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Re: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!
« Reply #13 on: Monday 18 August 08 22:08 BST (UK) »
Are these items really that old? Sorry, but the cynic in me suggests the colours of the symbols look like modern-day felt-tipped pen doodles?!  ???
Beattie, Beveridge, Carson, Davidson, Hounam, Johnston,  Purdon, Rae, Stevenson, - Scotland.  Brown, Bulman, Cooke, Harding, Meyers, Osborne, Routledge - England

Offline Lydart

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Re: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 19 August 08 09:59 BST (UK) »
Freemasonry ??
Dorset/Wilts/Hants: Trowbridge Williams Sturney/Sturmey Prince Foyle/Foil Hoare Vincent Fripp/Frypp Triggle/Trygel Adams Hibige/Hibditch Riggs White Angel Cake 
C'wall/Devon/France/CANADA (Barkerville, B.C.): Pomeroy/Pomerai/Pomroy
Som'set: Clark(e) Fry
Durham: Law(e)
London: Hanham Poplett
Lancs/Cheshire/CANADA (Kelowna, B.C. & Sask): Stubbs Walmesley

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Offline toni*

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Re: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 19 August 08 10:15 BST (UK) »
a map of the stars?
Holman & Vinton- Cornwall, Wojciechowskyj & Hussak- Bukowiec & Zahutyn, Bentley & Richards- Leicester, Taylor-Kent/Sussex  Punnett-Sussex,  Bear/e- Monkleigh Gazey-Warwicks

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Offline Aulus

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Re: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 19 August 08 12:51 BST (UK) »
A picture version of sudoku?  ;D

Very intriguing.

I've tried to enhance the photos to try to read the pencil text, but can't make it out.

The symbols and shading look non-random, so I don't think it's doodling.  From what you say, there are a number of these fixed (glued?) to a sheet.  That suggests it's something that's meant to be viewed as a whole (as we might draw up a family tree on separate sheets of A4, but to get the overall picture you have to fit all the sheets of paper together).

It doesn't look to me like a garden/planting plan - there's no flow or layout to the "design" (if it is a design).

For those who've suggested that it's something to do with needlework - are you guessing, or does it actually look like a needlework pattern - i.e. could a cross-stitcher/quilter/embroiderer or whatever today actually translate it into something?

Not sure it helps at all, but is the grid pre-printed on the paper?  If it's on pre-printed paper, then it follows that someone is making the paper like that for a reason.  Was graph paper made like that back then?  Actually, if it's pre-printed graph paper, the squares would presumably be drawn out into fractions of inches: I don't know what the size of these sheets are, but it doesn't look like they're inches divided up.  These are 3x3 grids, which then combine into a 5x5 grid and then into a 2x2 grid. 

I can't think of anything that standardly divides up into fifteenths.   ??? 

If it were a game of some sorts (an early version of battleships as already suggested), there might be more correlation between different grids?  A B1, D7 grid referencing system printed on the paper would make that more likely.  But why would they have been kept and all put together on one sheet?

The fact that they went to the trouble of preserving them, suggests they must have had some significance.  Maybe where it was found, and what was kept with it might help?

If you want a completely random guess that I don't think anyone else has suggested yet, how about some form of coded message?  That might explain why there is some pencil writing too - someone working out the code?  But that's just a guess, and really I'm just completely perplexed!

Lancashire: Stevenson, Wild, Holden, Jepson
Worcs/Staffs: Steventon, Smith
East London & Suffolk: Guest, Scrutton
East London: Palfreman (prev Tyneside), Bissell, Collis, Dearlove, Ettridge
Herts: Camac, Collis, Mason, Dorrington, Siggens
Marylebone & Sussex: Cole
London & Huntingdonshire: Freeman
Bowland: Marsden, Noble
Shropshire: Guest

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Offline Paul Caswell

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Re: Is it a map...? Is it a game....? Any ideas appreciated!
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 19 August 08 19:54 BST (UK) »
Hi MissM,

Could you give us a little more information please?

1. How big was the linen sheet?

2. How many squares were stuck to it (across and down please).

3. Would you be able to get more pictures? I would be most interested in an overall shot of the whole sheet (if possible) and of of each square if there aren't too many.

4. Were these three the most interesting ones or were they all about as detailed and complex?

Thoughts

The squares filled with triangles reminds me of a method of manual mapping I vaguely remember being taught as a child by my father. He was an entomologist and he was showing me how they map the insect damage of a field.

Perhaps it's something like a dowsing map. The dowser walks the garden in a grid pattern while an assistant notes the responses in the correct grid on his 'map'. The code used to fill in each square can be highly complex and subtle but there are common themes to these codes.

The codes are usually designed so that adjacent squares with particular markings show particular patterns. See in these images how the small red triangles seem to join up in places to form a line.

This looks like a fascinatingly complex code. I would guess the colours indicate a different kind of reading, perhaps from a different measuring device. The fact that they seem to use mostly the same code is very interesting, and yet the cyan arcs are fascinating because they may imply a direction to the measurement.

Remember that this need not be dowsing, all this could apply to any manual mapping process of a walkable area.

It is interesting that the colours used are exactly cyan/magenta/yellow. The exact opposites of our more familiar red/green/blue.

Still thinking ...

Paul
Caswell - Durham(Jarrow), Northumberland(Berwick), Dorset(Netherbury)
Drury - Middlesex(Kensington), Shropshire(Oswestry/Selattyn)
Turner - Dorset(Parkstone)
Speight - Essex(Braintree), Kent(Gravesend), Westmorland(Kendal)
Stockley - Dorset(Corfe Castle)
Amey - Suffolk(Haverhill)
Cousins - Norfolk(Ketteringham)
Sears - Bedfordshire(Potton), Cambridgeshire(Gamlingay)
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