Henry SMITH and Dinah Ellen GRAY

[rosie99]

Hi

Were Christopher, Bertie and Thomas at the funeral or could the E Smith be one of them but an error with the initial?

Rosie

[deb usa]

hi all

from page 1;
"another sister Mary Ann b1848 Eagle (d/o Barkwell and Charlotte Smith) married to John Gray? A fellow researcher told me Mary Ann Smith was married to John Coy of South Kyme  and then Thomas Carter but I'm wondering if this is a misread and John Coy is actually John Gray. It makes sense with the niece being Clara Carter . . . doesn't it?? "


In 1871;
North Kyme
Mary Ann COY head wid 22 charwoman b Braceby
Betsey dau 2 b North Kyme
CHARLOTTE SMITH visitor wid 67 general hawker b Weedon Barracks Cambridgeshire

so it looks like Jo was correct   

 deb

[deb usa]

In 1881

Mary Ann ( 42 b Eagle) is def married to Thomas Carter, waggoner living in Mareham Le Fen, Lincolnshire

They have children ;
Betsy Carter, 12...she must be Betsey COY
John 7
William 5
Harriot 2
Lucy Ann 1

Birth reg;
Betsy Coy Jun q 1868 Sleaford

Marriages;

John Coy Jun q 1867  Sleaford  = Mary Ann Smith Junq 1867  Sleaford

Mary Ann Coy Mar q  1872  Sleaford  =  Thomas Carter Mar q 1872 Sleaford

deb

added ..in 1891 Tom and Mary Ann have other children;
William 15
Lucy 11
Annie 9
mary Ann and Thomas Henry 7
Charles 4

I wonder who Clara Carter belongs to?

[mongojoby]

Hi Deb,

With regards to the weddings, a third cousin of mine (contact through internet) has seen the parish records and the witnesses to her marriage to John Coy are Besty Donson and Sarah Lockey and I have a copy of her marriage to Thomas Carter (witnesses his sister, Lucy Carter and her future husband, Timothy Martin).  In both cases her father is named as Barkwell Smith (deceased).  For her first marriage his profession is given as basket maker, second marriage it is horse dealer.  Combined with Charlotte Smith visting her in 1871 (which was just after John Coy died), these have been the only potential parents I can find. 

Unfortunatly as Mary Ann Smith is such a common name, date/place of birth are unclear and she cannot be found named as related to either of them on any census returns it has not been something I have been able to prove.

Sorry I should have told you all the information I had about Mary Ann Smith to clarify my position, I was just a bit worried about going off-topic from the thread.  The details back to her I am relatively certain of (as much as you can be anyway), since the source is from my g-grandmother's own copy of her birth certificate, in which her mother is named as Mary Ann Carter (late Coy, previously Smith). 

Regards
Jo

[deb usa]

hi

re; '  His younger brother Christopher is on the 1891 census as nephew of horse dealer John Gray and wife Mary living North Kyme who I believe is Abraham's older brother.  There is also a niece Clara Carter."

Okay I have found this marriage which would make sense having Clara, the niece , with them;

Mary Ann Carter = John Gray
 Dec 1883 Sleaford

In 1881;
North Kyme
Elizabeth Carter head wid 62 dressmaker
MARY ANN dau unm 22  dressmaker
Jane Carter gr dau 8
CLARA Carter gr dau 6
all born North Kyme

I wonder if Thomas Carter and Mary Ann are siblings?

deb

just seen your post Jo ....will read

[mongojoby]

Deb,

If you have a look at my first post, it probably isn't very clear but Mary Ann Carter's relationship to Thomas would I think effectively be half-aunt.  The Elizabeth Carter in your post is the second wife of Thomas' Grandad who was also called Thomas.

[deb usa]

Hi Jo

So sorry ...I went back to page 1 and reread Cheryl's first 2 posts ..should have read a bit further. 

deb

[Chezp]

Hi, you've all been so busy!! I feel guilty going out    

I'm going to put another spanner in the works now   

So I could check which of Fred's siblings were at his funeral, I got the report out and then noticed it says in the second paragraph

"The deceased, who was a native of Lincoln, had resided in the parish for 19 years ..."  and also " coffin bore the inscription Frederick Smith died October 2nd, 1928 aged 66 years."

The parish would be Great Hale, near Heckington/N&S Kyme but would the Horncastle he states on the census as his birthplace be classed as
 Lincoln as in Lincolnshire the county or do you think it means Lincoln the city?

So, mourners in 1928 were:
Mrs F Smith, (widow) that's Annie nee Luesby of Donington;
Mrs B Hand of Grantham (sister) that's Harriet Smith wife of Herbert /Bertie Hand, son Montague ;
Miss Smith, Metheringham (sister); Must be Charlotte as I've just gone through my file and I have a Constance Smith died 1926
Mr E Smith and Mr T Smith, Donington (brothers); one must be Thomas
Mrs W Smith, Donington, (sister-in-law) - don't know

 - so that gives us Harriet, Thomas, Charlotte but no Barthy or Christopher unless Mrs W Smith of Donington is a widow and using her own Christian name? It can't be Barthy's wife as Gt Uncle Barthy married Eliza Ann Thurlby and had a daughter Alice May Smith born 1901 Donington, so maybe Mrs W Smith is Christopher's widow?

I can see Fred's birth dates vary don't they from census to census. .  I just don't know which certificate to order. Perhaps one of his brothers or sister might be a better bet (if they are regular dates of course 
I have Fred's wedding certificate, Donington 1897 Frederick Smith residence Donington, father Henry Smith deceased, labourer. Witnesses Christopher Smith Surely Fred's brother? and Hillary Richardson (no idea who he/she is, no link on the Luesby side so could be just a friend?). Fred's signiature mark was witnessed by the vicar.

Have I helped? Doubt it! 
Chez

[deb usa]

Hi again


Your Smiths are as bad as my Penfolds ... hiding in certain censuses 

Have you found Dinah Ellen with children (most probably Thomas and Harriet) in 1891?

Also, when did she marry Francis Elliott?

deb