Henry SMITH and Dinah Ellen GRAY

[Chezp]

Hello everyone, sorry I couldn't be online for a while.

Like Mongojoby I too thought North Kyme a strange place to stop off - it is so quiet, a tiny village really, and yet so many Gray and Smith have links with it. The line up of Gray crosses in the graveyard is impressive - they are quite ornate, all side by side,  I have a photo of them if anyone wants a copy emailed.

Info like this really helps see the fuller picture when you realise how things were in those days. Thank you An65.

NOW...  Don't know if this is good news or bad news...

Henry Smith's death certificate arrived today.  He died North Kyme. No other address. 40 years old in June 1882. Horse dealer and informant of death was " the mark of Ellen Smith, widow of deceased, present at the death, North Kyme" so there it is, Henry and Ellen were married. So how she was a spinster later on ....

Chez

[An65]

Well, the thing is, she said she was his widow (as in we were married) and she later said she was a spinster....

[Chezp]

Sent this once = error message so if you get it twice sorry.


Yes, Ellen seems a woman who couldn't quite make up her mind up whether she was married or not. ( and I thought  I was bad shopping!)

I think she was described as the widow of Henry Smith when she married Francis Ellott ( An65 can you help here? )

Personally, from what we've got here, I am not sure they were married. Ok the census gives Smith surnames to the children (which they carry on as nephews etc) but I am wondering if they may have originally been baptised as GRAY ? Which might explain why I can't find any of their baptisms.

But... if Ellen was Henry's "widow " present at his death in 1882 and then said she was Henry Smith's "widow" when she married Francis Elliot in 1883 - what benefit would she have gained being a 41 year old widow against a spinster?

Any help gratefully received! 

Chez

[Chezp]

Hi Jo

Have sent Gray grave pics off to you.   
Chez

[An65]

would like them too Chez -

[Chezp]

Hi  An65

Least I can do for all your help. Thank you.
Chez

PS, any idea where I can try for getting in touch with any of Fred's siblings descendants? I can't seem to find them.

 I've put a couple of messages on the LIncs FHS page but nothing back. Do you know of any other websites? I've just subscribed to the Romany and Traveller FHS but the lady advised me to wait till Oct when their new year subscriptions started so I wouldn't miss out - when I subscribed I also bought 3 of the older Romany Routes back issue magazines. They came last week. Full of information. If anyone is thinking of joining I would recommend it for the magazines alone.

[An65]

Well I have written a few articles in past Romany Routes (Romany & Traveller FHS Journal) which you might enjoy.

Its a great site and a great place to find other family members.

Now the Elliots....... let me see....

there was
James b.1831 either Grantham or Folkingham m.Charlotte
Samuel b.1834 Little Steeping m.Margaret
Charlotte b.early 1830s Wyberton (near Boston)
Joseph b.1837 Candlesby m.Eliza Gray
Sarah b.1839 Nottingham
Julia b.1839 Timberland
Arnold b.1842 Broxholme m.Selina Clayton
Jemima b.1846 Barwell Leic
Harriet b.1849 Billingborough supposedly m.Henry Clarke
Christopher b.1851 Potterhanworth.

All were issue of Edward Elliot and Martha Smith.

[Chezp]

Hi An65

Yes, I was really impressed by the Romany Routes magazines.

I can now see that Dinah Ellen Gray stayed with travelling families after Henry's death when she "married"  Francis Elliott in 1883 but what happened to her children?

I'm curious to what contact she had with her children as some of the census we've covered here suggest she was apart from them and they stayed with their Gray uncles/aunts while she and Henry Smith were still "Married" ... but obviously the census after 1901 can't help.

I have family story and some past contact with the Grays and Smiths settled there in Great Hale, nr Heckington , Sleaford,   at The Laurels where the Gray family lived c1910 onwards, plus the Smith/Gray graves at North Kyme. 

It looks as if Henry Smith's sister Harriet , wife of Abraham Gray, played a big part in Henry , his mother Charlotte and his son Frederick  Smith's life, but the other Smiths seem to have moved away. Metheringham is one village mentioned.

I've lost almost all trace of Christopher, Sarah and even Fredericks's siblings, apart from the sister Harriet married Herbert Hand family (think mentioned earlier - son Montague and that ends in n1901 census)

And, while I've got my gt grandfather Henry Smith's grave at North Kyme,  I've no idea at all where my gt grandmother Dinah Ellen Gray/Smith/Elliott is buried... not even the county - Lincs, Cambs, Notts?

Chez

[Debulah]

Hi Chezp,
I am relatively new to this, and have only recently started to research the Romany side of my family (Gray), having had little factual information, only folk history from my fathers side of the family. I have found through the census that my great great grandfather was Abraham Gray (1854-6) married to Martha Smith (1856) and that his father was Christopher Gray (1815-1869) married to Maria Smith (1817). I have found several of the links through census of his siblings, and followed it back to Thomas and Elizabeth through others researching Grays/Smiths/Elliotts. I noticed you have many a thing about this side of my family, and as I knew nothing, including my great grandad Henry Grays birth date... which I now know to be 1891, (and that they were in Easton on the Hill, Stamford, Lincolnshire in 1911, were he married my great grandmother Eveline (Evelyn) Exton), was wondering if you would share your photo's, information etc with me.
This is a side of the family that has kind of gone hidden for too many years and I now believe should be celebrated, so would very much appreciate your help.

Debulah.