Elliott Family, Fountain hill,Derry

[Kiltaglassan]

Welcome to RootsChat, Mand1971 

I had been looking for a marriage for my great great grandfather John William Elliott born around 1856. Through a wrongly transcribed baptism record of one of their children I should of been looking in Derry for his marriage. They married on 1879 church of Ireland Derry, parish of Templemore. He married Frances(known as Fannie) Wilson. There address was Roseville street. John's father was also John.
 

Here's the link to the 1879 marriage-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1879/11066/8048745.pdf

Married on the 6 May 1879 in Londonderry Cathedral. John Elliott a coachman, his father John a ploughman. Fannie Wilson a servant, her father Thomas a labourer.


KG

[Mand1971]

Thank you so much for that. It's been fascinating reading all the messages.
As I know no names of siblings for John William and only his father's name  I think it's trying to find his birth now. They moved to Chorley between their marriage and the 1881 census where he was a coachman at Euxton Hall. I can't remember my nanna mentioning about any other Elliott family apart from her aunt and uncle Thomas and Henrietta who were both born in England. Thank you for the info and hopefully I can find out more about the Eglington link .
Thanks Amanda.

[GinaOz]

Hi Vicky and Noami. This is Colm again, Mary Elliot Nelis' grandson. I hope you are all keeping well. I know this is really late but am so sorry to hear about your dad, Vicky, and about Aunt Aggie, of course. Unfortunately, Sister Ursula McHugh, who my grandma mentioned to you before, passed away in December 2010. I have since made it a personal task to build up a complete family tree from her research. It now includes nearly 650 people and goes back to the 4th century CE, through the Elliotts and the McLaughlins, namely Edward Elliott and his wife, Mary Agnes (Molly) McLaughlin. I am reviewing all the previous messages here to try to make sense of it and see where everyone fits in. I would love to get in touch with you and anyone else in the Elliot family so that we can exchange info and keep everyone in touch. I am on Facebook and if you guys could PM me, I can send you links and any documents I may have. Grandma is doing well. I hope everyone here is well too. Look forward to hearing from you.

Colm

Hi All,
         Gina from Australia bringing you news of yet another Catholic Elliott branch that DNA Matching ( Ancestry, My Heritage, FTDNA & Gedmatch) has indicated links to the Fountain Hill Elliott clan.
          My great grandfather, John Elliott Jnr b 1831 in Faughanvale, nr Eglington, Derry, came to Australia in the 1850's, with his brother & married sister (Rosanna Gallagher) Their emigration shipping records gave the details of their lives to date. The 1841& 1851 Census in Lennoxtown, Scotland, confirmed the details.
          Their parents, John Elliott Snr & Mary (nee Mullan) had moved their family from Faughanvale to Lennoxtown, Campsie, Scotland around 1838. The 3 sons ( Edward, James & John Jnr all became Coal Miners). Only Edward remained in Scotland after his siblings left for the Gold Fields of Australia.
         Thanks to the records available through Scotland's People  I'm able to identify another generation back. John Elliott Snr's Death Registration in 1865 reveals his father to be an Edward Elliott, Blacksmith, deceased & his mother to be Mary McShane, deceased.
          From my searching it seems highly likely that Edward & Mary had a Forge at Slaughtmanus, Derry. It's my conjecture that somehow, the Elliott men who had the later Forges link back to this Edward Elliott & Mary McShane. Their son, my 2xgreat grandfather, appears to have worked as an agricultural labourer all of his life. Perhaps there was not enough work for them all in their father's forge.
          My great grandfather told of his Elliott Family Story as being exiled from the Scottish Borders because of their Catholicism. According to the Elliott Clan Chief in Scotland, this dates the exile as far back as 1605 ( the accession of James VI of Scotland to also being James I of England). Any Elliott wanting to remain in the Borders after this time would have had to renounce their Catholic Faith. She said, you'll not find any Catholic Elliotts here!
            Interestingly, when I also visited Lennoxtown on that trip I was told that it was a safe place for Irish Catholics & that there was a high proportion of them living/ working there still today.
              There's a lot of generations to fill in between 1606  & the Edward Elliott bc 1765 that married to Mary McShane bc 1770.
               Regards,
               Gina Gedmatch Kit JT9859871

[robelliottellru6]

Now i won't be connected to the Elliott's of Fountain Hill, although my family were/are from Londonderry City.
But just to clarify a couple of things. You have to take information given by Clan Elliot with a pinch of salt. Their take on history is very generic. Its true that there were no Catholic Elliot's along the Scottish Borders around 1600. There hadn't been any for a long time before then, but there was no exile to Ireland.
Ulster in the Plantation by King James I had been given over to Landlords & servitors. A so called 'exile' just couldn't roll up & get a house & a bit of land. There were qualifications for going over.
One was being Protestant & the other British as distinguished by the definition then. English or Scots....Low Land Scots Presbyterians.
Thats the first thing. Second is there were no
Elliot 's listed in the early records for the Militia in Londonderry City or County.  So they were not there 1610-40.
There are Elliot's....one T when first over from Scotland, on the 1665 Hearth Tax Rolls. They are identified as Planters. They are there as colonists. All Elliott's in Ireland would probably be. The false stories of having to leave Scotland runs through dozens of families trees. Often found in America after the War of Independence.
The family history suddenly says they had to leave Scotland/Ireland as they were wanted or something similar. It is just later generations trying to distance themselves from the British connection. Think about it logically. Your a Scottish Catholic in the 1600's after Guy Fawkes plot, you'd really head for Ulster? No you wouldn't. Unless you were actually a Scottish Presbyterian then you would go where your people were. Londonderry. There is an Elliot family at Cumber Parish and one at Clondermott Parish, listed as Planters 1665.
Slaughtmanus is in Cumber Parish.
By the start of the 1700's the Scots had been there a long time, 100 years, intermarriage was not uncommon. Presbyterians had largely the same restrictions as Catholics. Around this time you start to see Catholic Elliott families in County Meath & Fermanagh.
As most people who research Ireland know, the families as a rule didn't move too far. Except to go to America or the like. So those Elliott's at Cumber Parish stand a good chance of being connected to you.
Thats the first bit. Second bit is dna. Not the autosomal ancestry dna but the Y paternal line dna. I have tested my Y dna to a high level.
I was placed in the L193+ group for Elliott's. This is referred to as the main Scottish Border Elliot family.....we do not match the majority of Elliott's wherever they are found. There are 512 Elliott Y tested. My closest matches amount to 74, of which maybe 30 are in the centre section of the main group. This means that 30 have a common ancestor any time from about 1450 or sooner.  The date the name Elliot is first seen on a written document is about then.
I am in that group of 30. I have two close matches. An old American family emigrated 1750 & a later, now Australian family. We all connect to a common ancestor in Donegal about 1700. In the whole of Ireland there are only 1 other group closely matched to us. From just outside Ballymena. Thats it. There are a handful of more distant Elliott's who will be from pre 1450. Plus quite a few Irish surnames, but also distant.
There are no Ydna matches that match to Clan Elliot i am aware of. Not just mine.
This does not mean any others named Elliott are not Elliott's or do not come from Scotland originally. It just means that there are many different families not connected. No single origin.
It is possible your line were Catholic Elliot's in Scotland but did not go to Ireland until 1700's but were not off the Borders where mine were. But another part.
A Y dna test of one of your line would be good.
Rob Elliott