Was he a Dutchman ?

[bjo]

Hello folks,
Most of my research has been from Suffolk.  However, recently I found an instance of my very unusual surname on FreeBMD in Norfolk. There were two marriage entries for the same person:
John Dutchman Orsler.
One in 1846 and the second in 1853 both at Kings Lynn.
I believe that the first wife Lydia had died in 1851. She is listed in the 1851 as Lydia Ostler married.  There is no record of the husband John Dutchman Orsler.
John is next found aged 36 in 1861 at Kings Lynn with his new wife Mary A Ostler (nee. Allen) and children.  His occupation is tailor.  They are registered again in 1871 with John aged 40
I can find no later records for John Dutchman Orsler or his wife, although a couple of the children are found in later census returns with variations on the surname.
I do not know if John originated in Norfolk as I cannot find any birth records.  I do not think that he is one of my Suffolk Orsler's as I have found all the Orsler families for that period in Suffolk.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you
Brenda (Orsler)

[heywood]

Hi Brenda,
Mary and children are here in 1881 as Horsley RG11; Piece: 1998; Folio: 18; Page: 29
she is described as a widow.
There is a death for John Horsley in 1875 which fits roughly with age - 48 yrs making him born 1827.

1841 has two John Ostlers - born 1826 and 1831 I think they were.

Dutchman occurs as a surname in Norfolk so perhaps that's where his name originates from.

I suppose - if you had the money - you could get a marriage certificate to find his father's name and see if that helps 

[heywood]

Free BMD has a death 1887- Mary Horsley 58 yrs - does this surname fit with the variations you found for the children?

[bjo]

Thanks Heywood,
There are so many variations of the name !!
That is certainly the family in 1881 although poor Diana Ostler born 1861 is at the Association For Care Of Friendless Girls in 1881 !!
I don't think that either of the 1841 entries are 'my' John Orsler.
What I find strange is the fact that it is only the two marriage entries that actually spell the name as ORSLER.  Every record after that there are derivations.
With your find in 1881 under the name HORSLEY I have found an entry in 1841 for a John Horsley b.1829 in Norwich who is a possibility.
I have one John Orsler born 1812 that I have never found any records of.  So maybe a link here from the 1841 with the head of household being John Horsley born c1811. There is a Norfolk connection in this line with names Orsler/Oastler/Ostler etc.
Interestingly the Father of the John Orsler c1812 in my tree is:
Elijah (base) born son of Elizabeth Horsley  baptised 30th August 1778
So many spellings, but maybe a connection with my Suffolk ancestors to 'The Dutchman'
Regards
Brenda

[heywood]

Hi Brenda,
I looked at that John Horsley and it is odd when you compare 1841 with 1851 - John Snr in both cases is a dyer - wife Mary but the children vary  They are living in the same place too so I think it is them. If so they have a much younger son John as well   

[bjo]

Thanks again Heywood,
I think that I shall have to go back to the drawing board on this one.
I am pretty sure now that the John Orsler/Horsley born c.1812 that I have in my tree went to America (not 100% sure though of course) and is not the John Horsley b1811 in Norfolk in the 1841 census.
So I am thinking that this John Dutchman Orsler may be the only individual thus far who spelt his name ORSLER that is not actually one of 'mine' !!
I shall continue to either try to find a Norfolk link with my Orsler's or maybe discount the link.
Thanks
Brenda

[bjo]

It gets more complicated.

I have just found this fellow in 1841:
HOSLER, John     M     23     1818          Norfolk      

He is a tailor (the same occ. as the Dutchman) but the age is suspect !!
Brenda

[heywood]

that looks interesting re occupation but I have tried all sorts of variations with no success. 

[bjo]

Thanks for the interest Heywood.
This business of spelling is a headache.  That's the downfall of having a peculiar name and the fact that most of the ancestors were unable to spell.
Even as late as 1881 my 2nd Gt Grandfather is listed as ARSLER on the census.
Must be the Suffolk accent !!!!
Brenda