Help Wanted

[Marc Mc Namara]

I have regimental information relating to my Great uncle following his death in the great war - I have his original documents and traced his record with the CWGC.
I would like to understand a little more about the regiment with whom he served but i do not understand what it means and therefore where to start.

He served with the 410th Bty. 96th Bde with the RFA - Could i find out where they served etc?

Also, slightly different tack, but was was the logic for recruiting Irish men in the great war? My great uncle served with the above and my G-grandfather served in the 20th coy, south division - assume both are English based regiments - so i should like to understand why soldiers were recruited to a particular regiment

Thanks

[liverpool annie]

Hi Marc !

To answer your "different tack" first ........

Ireland was part of of the United Kingdom at this time although there was an Independence movement ..... British rule in Ireland did not end with the Easter Rising of 1916 as many people believe

The British Army was traditionally seen as an area of potential employment for working class Irishmen. Many of the recruit's came from the urban poor, joining the army was seen as an opportunity to better oneself. The pay was good in comparison to what was available at home and an allowance was also paid to the spouse of the soldier while he was away on duty. This made the army financially attractive to the Irish poor. It is notable that despite many inducements (including setting up special battalions for clerks and office workers) recruitment proceeded at a much slower pace among the Irish middle classes.

Many of the early recruits were also members of the Irish Volunteers (180,000 strong at the outbreak of war), a military force whose aim was to obtain Home Rule for Ireland. Home Rule meant that Ireland would have an Irish Parliament for domestic affairs while the British Parliament would retain control over the armed forces, taxation and foreign policy of Ireland. The Irish Volunteers political leader was John Redmond MP for Wexford. On the 25th of May 1914 the British Parliament had passed the Irish Home Rule Bill but the commencement of the war prevented it being implemented immediately. Asquith (the British Prime Minister at the time) promised that it would be implemented after one year or at the end of the war whichever was longest. Redmond did not want to turn British opinion against Irish Home Rule by declining to side with Britain in the war against Germany. Redmond felt that it was the politically correct move to encourage the Irish Volunteers to join up, thus would Britain be assured of Irelands loyalty to it. This, it was felt, would assure the smooth introduction of Home Rule after the war. Most of the Irish National Party leadership agreed with this assessment of affairs. The only nationalist political group who opposed this stance was the minority Sinn Fein party who felt that Ireland should be completely independent from Britain.

Most Irish recruitment to the British Army took place prior to 1916. Recruitment had slowed prior to the Easter Rising in Dublin, as many finally realised there was no probability of the war finishing quickly as had initially seemed likely in early 1914 .... most Irishmen came back from the war disillusioned and wondering what they had been fighting for. Circumstances at home dictated they could take no pride in the role they played in WW1 fighting in the British Army

Annie 

[forester]

Hello Marc,

96th Army Field Artillery Brigade was composed of 407th, 408th 409th and 410th Batteries. It was attached to the Second Army and appears to have been formed in March 1918 when the Second Army moved from Italy back to the Western Front. I believe that the idea behind attaching part of the artillery to the Army and away from the Division was to make it more flexible. Unfortunately, that makes it harder to track it's movements.

There is a war diary for 96 Army Field Artillery Brigade at the National Archives, Kew. It covers the period March 1918 to June 1918 and is catalogued under the reference WO 95/295.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/04i0/

From the papers you have, do you know which Brigade Richard served with prior to Spring 1918?

Phil

[Marc Mc Namara]

Annie - Thanks for taking the time to provide such a comprehensive response to my query. It makes a lot of sense though, because prior to the great (!) war , tracing the family in the city of Dublin was comparable with herding kittens - then once My Great Grandfather & his son go off to war, the address stabilises for the duration of and some 11 years after the war, though it cost Richard his life.
What i find quite sad is that we never had any awareness of Armistice day or the great war and i guess like may Irish families migrating, ours was not a very pro establishment household.  It was only near to the end of my fathers life that this information come to light and it is in truth quite humbling to attempt to appreciate what they, amongst so many others, endured just to bring in a wage.

Phil - Thanks for clarifying the structure of the brigade - do you know if it was drawn from a particular geography? The papers i have are the correspondence to his mother, the notice of his death, a doc detailing what was due in wages etc but no mention of where he served other than he mentions in correspondence to his mother that he was in France.

I have ordered a book by a soldier who served in the 96th bde - Jack Garbutt: the Bilsdale Bombardier.A review of the book states :
"He enlists in 1914 and joins 96th Brigade of the Royal Field Artillery, one of the gun units under command of 21st Division. Jack's time in France is explored through letters and postcards, laced into extracts from the brigade war diary, official history and other sources. While the movements and actions are covered in detail, the book remains readable through a skillful light touch."

I shall look at obtaining  a copy of the diary - Many thanks both

Marc

[forester]

Hello Marc,

There are a total of 17 casualties from 410th Battery throughout 1918, of which about a quarter are equally from Lancs, Home Counties and the South West. Richard is the only Irishman.

Unfortunately, what I can't pin down, is how the 96th Army F. A. Bde was formed. According to the Long Long Trail, the original 96th Bde RFA became an army brigade in January 1917. That is a full 12 months before the formation of the brigade Richard was in. Also, looking at other casualties with similar service numbers to Richard's, it implies that he would not have gone overseas before late in 1917, or even early 1918.

Just hope that an Artillery expert comes along, or that Richard's service record has survived. 

Phil

[Marc Mc Namara]

Phil
Thanks for your time and your effort - truly appreciated.

Marc

[Marc Mc Namara]

In a bid to resurrect this topic & generate some info , i was asked by Phil previously if i had info about Richards prior regiments etc.  I have reviewed some other info and discovered that he had only travelled out to the front that year as a comment on a letter of consolation from his commander stated that he travelled from Karkhill / Harkhill together earllier that year (1918) so i guess given his age it likely that this was his first posting, and given that his father was also serving in the RGA , he probably wanted the wages to support his siblings and mother.

Marc

[liverpool annie]

Hi Marc and Phil !

I am a dufuss where the Artillery are concerned because they are so complicated !..... but I wonder if they came under the Australians as I found this and the 96th Army F. A. Bde are mentioned ....  France 6 July 1918 .........

http://www.unsw.adfa.edu.au/~rmallett/Australian_Corps.html

By the way ... did we ever find out his name ?? that may help !! 

Annie 

[forester]

Hello Annie and Marc,

It looks like the dufuss has found them. 

As for the name Annie, although Marc hasn't confirmed it; Richard Thomas McNamara, Gunner 238842.

Marc, the camp he was in prior to being posted to the front is probably Larkhill. It's one of the many that were on Salisbury Plain.

Phil