William Matthew MITCHELL marriage c1917 Plymouth

[Philezra]

Hi everybody - I'm a little stumped here.

Background is that my Grandmother remarried (following the death of her 1st husband)  to a William Matthew Mitchell in the early/mid 1950s in Plymouth.

I have obtained William's birth certificate where it states he was born 5 March 1917 - it wasn't registered, however until 7 December 1960 !!!!!

It states his father is William Matthew Mitchell (also) and mother as Ellen Elizabeth, late Knowles, formerly Foster.......

I cannot, having looked on FreeBMD and Ancestry find a marriage for William (snr) and Ellen.......

If anyone can put me in the right direction, I'd be grateful - I will then be able to go through the census'

thank you

Phil

[jannergray]

Hi Phil

Interesting one this.

William Matthew Mitchell's birth was registered it seems three times!

You have it being registered on 7th December 1960, however...

It was first registered in the June Quarter of 1917, at East Stonehouse. The reference reads:
MITCHELL, William M.
Mother's Maiden Name: KNOWLES.
East Stonehouse. 5b. (See June 1919)
- so we can see from this that his Mother's Maiden Name is Knowles. However there is a note to see June 1919.

So I checked June 1919 and it says this:
MICHELL, William M.
Mother's Maiden Name: FOSTER
East Stonehouse, 5b. 363

So... it seems he was registered twice? Or actually registered in 1919 but as he was born in 1917 his birth entry was added into that volume too? As the GRO index for 1917 has his entry added by hand at a later date whereas the 1919 entry is typed.

It'd probably be a good idea to order the 1919 Certificate to see if it differs from the 1960 one!

Graham

[jannergray]

Me again

Just thought id check to see if there was any other reference to William at East Stonehouse.

His birth was also registered under the surname KNOWLES in 1917 and 1919.

The GRO Index for June 1917 says
KNOWLES, William M
Mother's Maiden Name: Foster
East Stonehouse
5b 370(crossed out) (See June 1919)

The GRO Index for June 1919 says
KNOWLES, William M
Mother's Maiden Name: Foster
East Stonehouse
5b 363

Hope this helps, Graham

[jannergray]

Last installment from me:

Ellen Elizabeth FOSTER married Thomas KNOWLES at Devonport in December Qtr 1903. Volume 5b, page 759.

Ellen Elizabeth KNOWLES married William M MITCHELL at East Stonehouse in March Qtr 1924. Volume 5b, page 501.

Graham

[Philezra]

Hi Graham

Have only just had a chance to read the replies - how fascinating and thank you so much for your help!!!

So, if i have my theory,  Thomas Knowles died (there are a few listed on the Commonwealth War Graves site) but was he the father of William?

I'm confused - William has two different surnames.............did Ellen not know who the father was??? What are your thoughts Graham?

Phil

[Philezra]

William jnr had a brother Stan, a well known painter in Plymouth and it seems, a sister called Edith and another brother John J. -

Ediith Mitchell - Sept 1920 - E Stonehouse - 5b, 510

Stanley Mitchell - Sept 1918 -  E Stonehouse - 7AD/60 - TWICE?

John J Mitchell - March 1922 - E Stonehouse - 5b, 448 (also Dec 1921???)

Strange goings-on..........

Phil

[jannergray]

Hi Phil

Strange goings on indeed! and its hard to get it sorted in your head aint it!

As William was registered as KNOWLES and as MITCHELL in 1917 I suppose the best way to get more information is to get hold of those birth certificates.

I suppose a part of me thinks that Ellen may have been left a widow, sometime before 1917 (that is if Thomas KNOWLES was killed in the War) and had a child, William by William M MITCHELL, before they married.

Therefore I suppose the child would have been known as KNOWLES as Ellen was married but then the child was re-registered after the war, or at least had his name changed. Perhaps Ellen and William got together after the War and lived together? If William Jnr had those brothers and sisters, all born before 1924 when Ellen married William then it shows that they probably cohabiting at least at that time.

Does this make sense?!

Graham

[jannergray]

Another point

Interesting in your first post that you mentioned William's Birth Certificate was registered in 1960. Seems that the same thing happened with Stanley's Birth...

I wonder if William Matthew Mitchell, Senr was Serviceman during WW1?

Graham

[Philezra]

Well.....sort of......!!!

Strange, I can't find any children for Ellen and her first husband even though they'd been married for quite a long time - she was no spring chicken when she started having children was she!!!

Also, no trace of either William senior or Ellen in 1901 census..........!!!!!

What's happening Graham?