ISAAC & ELLES COMER (Eli son of Yechiel Mikal) Middlesex/ Whitechapel 1854

[JustinL]

Hello Wendy,

Have a play with this enormous database of Jewish Polish records:

http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/jriplweb.htm

There are a couple of records of Komer, and a huge number for Cymer/Cimmer.

Bear in mind that many (most) of these records have been transliterated from Russian to English.

As this family were Jewish, you should not expect to see a Polish surname, merely a Jewish one.

The map attached below shows the Jewish Pale of Settlement of the Russian Empire. Poland or Congress Poland was part of that Empire, being the area bulging out on the left.

Have you managed to locate Ellis' naturalization papers?

Justin

PS Did Ellis name one of his sons Isaac? He would only have done that after the death of his father - Ashkenazi naming custom.

[JustinL]

Did you know that Ellis and Hannah Sarah, and eight other Comers are buried in the Edmonton Federation Cemetery?

Ellis died aged 90 on 21 Oct 1914
Hannah Sarah died aged 72 on 1 Mar 1909

Ellis/Elles was probably originally called Elias. There are a couple of occurrences of Elias/Elio KOMER in the JRI databases.

Elias was a recurrent name in my distant ancestors from northern Bavaria. It appears to have been the secular form of the Hebrew name Asher, often combined with the byname Enzeleh, i.e. Asher Enzeleh.

However, it could also derive from Eyliyahu. This was the more common origin amongst eastern European Jews.

Justin

[bendywendy]

Hi Justin
Wow, what good info you have passed on, I will look at the link later.
Yes Ellis did name a son Isaac.
I found the Edmonton Cemetery details over the weekend.
I think I now need to contact my friend to see if he has got any more info from a newly found
distant cousin.
Again I  will post any info and I will respond to the link after I have been "through" it.
Regards
Bendywendy

[JustinL]

Great Synagogue Chambers appears to have been the location cited on many marriage certificates.

I doubt that this referred to the rabbi's private chambers. It may simply have been another room within the synagogue complex at Duke's Place. It may simply have been the general address.

Justin

[bendywendy]

Yes, the problem with not being of the same faith always has its problems of understanding.
It is very possible that it is just the name given for the Synagogue and the place within for the marriage. I have looked at many websites relating to the Synagogue but no mention of the Rabbi's Private Chambers is mentioned in any case.
Bendywendy

[bendywendy]

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/index.html

this is an excellent site.

Can anyone tell me how to go about obtaining copies or info of Naturalisation Documents.
I know they are held at Kew but have no idea how to obtain copies.
Also would the names be the original ones or the adopted names ie Ellis Comer.

[JustinL]

Hello Wendy,

The site is good isn't it. Did you see the map of the Pale there?

To obtain naturalization papers you need to locate them in the online catalogue of the National Archives. (www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

It looks like several people have already searched for COMER records and only found the two cited earlier.

Berlin-Bob has combined a couple of postings on the subject; you might find some more advice there.

Given that Ellis arrived in England in the early 1850s, I wouldn't be surprised if he hadn't bothered to apply. In the later censuses, he could jus tabnout say anything he wanted. Who would know the truth?

Justin

[bendywendy]

Yes, a very good site.
I have come across the possibility of Ellis not applying for Naturalisation before.
I wonder if he could have filed in his original name, now that will be very difficult to track down, unless his father filed as well. I understand that the Head files for all the family then they are all Naturalised at the same time. If this is the case then Ellis and his father certainly waited a long time for it to be finalised as I think it was on the 1891 cen that Ellis said he had become Nat.

Question = If Isaac filed as Head then would the whole family be listed on Isaac's Nat Doc's and not everyone seperately??.

Also I read somewhere that a person could register to apply in their original name but then have their adopted name added as well and vise versa, now I suppose the details online would only have the first name and not any subsequent ones, perhaps this case requires someone to search the archives at Kew in person.

Nice talking to you Justin.
Wendy

[JustinL]

Wendy,

Is there any evidence to suggest that Isaac also came to England? Judging by Ellis' age, I would say that he (Ellis) came on his own.

At any rate, Isaac died about 1865, before the birth of Ellis' son who was given that name.

I firmly believe that the original surname was not very different from COMER, perhaps simply KOMER.

As far as I know you are correct in thinking that the head of a family became naturalized, and then his wife and all his children are listed on the same application. However, that may only have applied to minors, i.e. children under 21 years.

Justin