Marriage James Higham and Ann Dance

[louisa b]

I'd like to find this marriage 
 - probably c.1820 possibly St John the Baptist, Shoreditch

The info I have so far:
death cert Henry Higham d. 1915 (age 81) Victoria, Australia; parents James Higham, Annie Dance (same on Henry's marriage cert, age 25 in 1859)

1841 StLeonard Shoreditch-Hoxton New Town 107/707/6
Dorset Crescent
Ann Higham 40 Ind
James      20
Mary         15
George       9
Henry         7
Jane           3 months

1851 Shoreditch StJohns Hoxton 107/1536
29 Ark St
Ann Higham Widow 51   M.....? nurse    born Battersea
George       son     19 clerk                         Shoreditch
Jane           dau      10 scholar

1851 St Leonard Shoreditch  107/1534
 Henry Higham     16        Boy       Shoreditch..........can't make out the writing

IGI
Henry Higham
b. 4 May 1834
chr. 18 Dec 1836 St John the Baptist, Shoreditch, London
parents James Higham and Ann

Pallots marriage index has 2 entries:
Jas Higham, Ann Dance 1817 Southwark
and
Ann Dance, Jas Higham 1817 Chrstch Blckfrsrd

also (although not directly related to the marriage)
freeBMD death James Higham Mar 1841 Shoreditch vol2 p361
seems possible as his daughter Jane born late 1840 but I can't find him in the 1841 census

Thanks for any suggestions for my next step
Regards
Louisa

[Valda]

Welcome to Rootschat Louisa

ANN HIGHAM 
Christening:  18 APR 1819   Christ Church, Southwark, London
Father:  JAMES HIGHAM   
Mother:  ANN     
 
JAMES HIGHAM
Christening:  24 JUN 1821   Christ Church, Southwark, London
Father:  JAMES HIGHAM 
Mother:  ANN 

MARY HIGHAM 
Christening:  07 AUG 1825   Christ Church, Southwark, London
Father:  JAMES HIGHAM 
Mother:  ANN 

AMELIA HIGHAM 
Christening:  07 AUG 1825   Christ Church, Southwark, London
Father:  JAMES HIGHAM 
Mother:  ANN 

THOMAS HIGHAM 
Christening:  01 JUL 1827   Christ Church, Southwark, London
Father:  JAMES HIGHAM
Mother:  ANN

WILLIAM HIGHAM
Christening:  04 APR 1830   Christ Church, Southwark, London
Father:  JAMES HIGHAM 
Mother:  ANN 

GEORGE HIGHAM
Birth:  18 JUL 1831   
Christening:  18 DEC 1836   Saint John The Baptist, Shoreditch, London
Father:  JAMES HIGHAM
Mother:  ANN 

FREDERICK HIGHAM
Birth:  16 JUN 1831   
Christening:  18 DEC 1836   Saint John The Baptist, Shoreditch, London
Father:  JAMES HIGHAM   
Mother:  ANN     

ELIZABETH HIGHAM
Birth:  07 DEC 1834   
Christening:  07 JUN 1835   Saint John The Baptist, Shoreditch, London
Father:  JAMES HIGHAM   
Mother:  MARY   

JANE MARY ANN HIGHAM
Birth:  14 SEP 1840   
Christening:  20 DEC 1840   Saint John The Baptist, Shoreditch, London
Father:  JAMES HIGHAM 
Mother:  ANN 

Births Dec 1840   
Higham  Jane Mary Ann     Shoreditch  2 370


Christ Church Blackfriars Road Southwark

http://www.southwark.anglican.org/parishes/250m.htm

south of the river Thames in what is now south London but was then Surrey. Ditto Battersea.

http://www.londonancestor.com/views/vc-christc.htm


Regards

Valda

[suzard]

If the death reg for james in mar qtr 1841 is "your james" then he would not appear on the 1841 census.

The 1841 census was taken on the night of 6/7th June 1841


Suz

[louisa b]

That's great! - thanks Valda and Suz

This may be asking the obvious, but
1) are the 2 marriages in 1817 from Pallots index referring to the same 2 people? (I must admit I was a bit surprised that there could be 2 couples with the same names marrying in the same year!)

2) is there any way of getting a date or any further information ie parents names for the marriage of James and Ann?

3) was Henry there in 1834?

4)any ideas about the apparent birth one month apart of Frederick and George
(I've heard of twins born a few days apart but I can't imagine they would have had the drugs etc back then to delay labour...?)
or of Henry in May 1834 then Elizabeth in Dec 1834, although I suppose she may have been prem?

Thanks for the links to the pictures of the church - they are lovely.
Thanks also for the date of the census - makes more sense.

Best regards
Louisa

[Valda]

Louisa

Pallots is listing one marriage.

It was a card index so thinking how people would look through a card index particularly if they only knew one of the surnames the marriages were indexed under both surnames.

If you look at the actual image of cards themselves (and you should do because Ancestry only indexes part of the indformation from the cards) you will see they are identical except the names have been reversed. Neither of the actual cards says Southwark - they both say Christ Church Blackfriars Road.

Parents names will not be on a marriage in 1817. The father (and only the father even today) will have his name and occupation on marriages from the start of civil registration which began 1st July 1837.

This is the sort of information you will find on marriage certificates pre 1837.

http://www.british-genealogy.com/resources/registers/7marpre1837.htm

Searching the church marriage register itself for 1817 will give you the exact date of the marriage. The IGI only has coverage of Christ Church Southwark marriages between these dates 1807-1812, 1828-1880.

You already had the date of Henry's baptism in Saint John The Baptist, Shoreditch baptism index from the IGI which is why I didn't give it again. All the baptisms I did give were taken straight from the IGI. The IGI coverage of Christ Church baptisms are 1670-1710, 1807-1830, 1834-1844, 1867-1877 and St John the Baptist Shoredicth 1830-1875.

I would suggest the birth date difference of Frederick and George are either a mistake in the transcription of the IGI or a mistake in the actual register itself. The year is likely to be incorrect for one of the children. If they both survived you might be able to work out which from censuses and age on death registrations, or looking at the actual register itself if the mistake is in the IGI (International Genealogical Index) - you should always check the primary source itself if possible, since errors creep into indexes. Ditto for Elizabeth and Henry's birth. Though in all these cases when later baptisms are recorded in a register there is not a space for birth dates in the printed register format after 1812. Examples given

http://www.british-genealogy.com/resources/registers/3baptpost1813.htm

so birth dates can be squeezed in and difficult to read. It also relies on the memory of the parents for the exact date of birth. In a world not run on paper and computer trails, and one that was more about a daily survival sometimes in grim circumstances with children dying young and more children born, memories about exact dates could easily be a little hazy and didn't necessarily write themselves (other than perhaps their signature) so didn't keep memory aids.

Regards

Valda

[louisa b]

Hi Valda - thank you very much for answering my questions and giving me lots of information.
Cheers! Lou

[ray1608]

Hi Louisa.  I'm searching the HIGHAM line for a friend and have just found your request re the John HIGHAM/Ann DANCE marriage.

I too have been tracking that one.  Have you found out any more about it, and where John and Ann's families came from?

I can tell you that their son Henry (the "boy" with the master butcher in Shoreditch 1851) migrated to Melbourne in 1857 where he set up a mini-dynasty of butchers.  That info is off this specific topic so please contact me [ ray AT brindle.name  - no spaces ] if you wish to explore that further - and of course any more info about the Higham-Dance marriage here would be helpful.

James died in Q1 1841 leaving Ann with 9 surviving children .  Frederick (one of the two with possibly erroneous birth dates in 1831) died in 1838. 

Ray
in Victoria

[pjsack]

Hello Louisa and Ray

I just came across your posts from 10 years ago!  Did you find the information on the Highams and Dances you were looking for?  I can tell you that most but not all the information that was posted was correct.

James Higham was the youngest brother of my 4x great grandmother Tamerson Higham, who married William Sack.  Their father was Thomas Higham a butcher.  It was through Thomas that his son in law William Sack became a butcher.  Many of William's descendants were also butchers and some of those also emigrated to Australia.


If you want to know anything more about the Highams or Dances please let me know.


Kind regards

Philip Sack

Redlynch, Wiltshire, UK