Author Topic: Baron Morris FRANKAL  (Read 4057 times)

Offline BettyofKent

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Baron Morris FRANKAL
« on: Thursday 13 November 08 14:43 GMT (UK) »
I can remember my mother talking about relatives in South Africa, but all I can recall is the name Rosalie, & mention of twins.
Hardly enough info on which to base a search!

However, after browsing on Ancestry, I've recently found this Burial in South Africa:

From JewishGen Online Worldwide Burial Registry
Baron Morris FRANKAL
Born abt 1897
Death date: 29 Sept 1967
Death Country: South Africa

This fits in with my Baron Morris FRANKAL, born 1897 (London)
I believe he married Eva WEISS in 1928 in Manchester, England.
That's all I know about him.

I would be very grateful for any help in filling in the gap between birth & death, I know nothing about searching SA records, & this burial seems to be the only result on Ancestry, but I only have AncestryUK.

TIA
Betty
KENT:
Stutely - Wittersham & Stone
Padgham - Wittersham
Wanstall - Northbourne
Taylor - Ringwould & Ash
Skinner - Deal
Bushell - Walmer
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Also
Schloss - Poland, Nottingham, Massachusetts & New Zealand.
Cohen - Birmingham

"Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov."

Offline Leanne68

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Re: Baron Morris FRANKAL
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 15 November 08 12:29 GMT (UK) »
Hi Betty,

It might well be worth an email to the archives to look into the following file reference :

DEPOT     KAB                                                                 
SOURCE    PIO                                                                   
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 1864                                                                 
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 82079E                                                               
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION     IMMIGRATION PAPERS. BM FRANKAL.                                       STARTING  1956   ENDING    1957

Details about how to got about that are, i believe, detailed in a sticky post in the forum.

best wishes
Leanne
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Offline BettyofKent

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Re: Baron Morris FRANKAL
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 16 November 08 17:21 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Leanne, I'll look into that.

Regards
Betty
KENT:
Stutely - Wittersham & Stone
Padgham - Wittersham
Wanstall - Northbourne
Taylor - Ringwould & Ash
Skinner - Deal
Bushell - Walmer
Spain - Walmer
Also
Schloss - Poland, Nottingham, Massachusetts & New Zealand.
Cohen - Birmingham

"Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov."

Offline baronfrankal

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Re: Baron Morris FRANKAL
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 22 September 12 18:37 BST (UK) »
Dear Betty

My name is Baron Frankal - the grandson of Baron Morris Frankal; although he died a couple of years before I was born, and so I never actually met him.

My father was David Frankal, and I now live in Manchester. I would be happy to tell you much more about him and about the family.

What is your relationship ?

Best, Baron



Offline BettyofKent

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Re: Baron Morris FRANKAL
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 23 September 12 18:05 BST (UK) »
Hello Baron, very nice to 'meet' you :) & welcome to Rootschat.

Mum used to talk about Cousin Bertie who was shot down over Germany 8th April 1945.  No known grave, but I have seen his name on the Runnymede Memorial, & he was one of the reasons why I wanted to trace my family tree.

Cousin Bertie - Bertram Max Frankal, born 19th April 1916, London, mother Augusta Cohen, father Leon Heiman Frankal.
Augusta & Leon were married in 1912.
Augusta was a sister of my mother's mother.

I wouldn't normally bother much with an in-law's other marriages, but, wanting to get to 'know' Bertie, I became interested in his half-siblings from Leon's first marriage, to Dora. The South African connection is especially interesting, this is the only lead, so far, to the family in SA my mother mentioned.

As I said, I'm interested in the Frankals, so anything you are willing to add will be most welcome. You can use the PM (private message) system if you prefer, but I don't think that is available to you until you have made 3 (I think) public posts.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Regards
Betty
KENT:
Stutely - Wittersham & Stone
Padgham - Wittersham
Wanstall - Northbourne
Taylor - Ringwould & Ash
Skinner - Deal
Bushell - Walmer
Spain - Walmer
Also
Schloss - Poland, Nottingham, Massachusetts & New Zealand.
Cohen - Birmingham

"Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov."

Offline RuthMB

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RE Bertram Frankal
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 24 October 12 21:27 BST (UK) »
Hi Betty

My name is Ruth and I am the daughter of Ron Frankal.  His father was Fabian Frankal who was one of the four children of Dora and Leon.

Bertram therefore was my father's half uncle.

A plaque to his memory was situated in Harrow synagogue and when it closed it was put into storage. It has recently been found and is due to be rededicated soon in Pinner Synagogue.

As i was doing a bit of research about him your name came up so I thought I would get in touch.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Ruth

Offline BettyofKent

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Re: Baron Morris FRANKAL
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 25 October 12 19:42 BST (UK) »
Hello Ruth, it's good to 'meet' you :) & welcome to RootsChat.

I'm very pleased to hear about the plaque & its rededication in Pinner Synagogue.
Thanks to the kindness of a member of RootsChat, I now know a little more about Bertram, his crew & what happened the night he died.

I think I'm gradually getting to 'know' Bertie, anything you can add will be very gratefully received.


Betty
KENT:
Stutely - Wittersham & Stone
Padgham - Wittersham
Wanstall - Northbourne
Taylor - Ringwould & Ash
Skinner - Deal
Bushell - Walmer
Spain - Walmer
Also
Schloss - Poland, Nottingham, Massachusetts & New Zealand.
Cohen - Birmingham

"Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov."

Offline baronfrankal

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Re: Baron Morris FRANKAL
« Reply #7 on: Friday 06 September 13 17:02 BST (UK) »
Dear betty and ruth

Thank you so much for your posts, and my sincere apologies it has taken me so very long to respond. I am hoping very much you will not follow my example, as I am eager to know where I fit into all this. I can tell you what I know.

Baron morris was indeed married to eva weiss, or white, my grandmother, who returned to manchester from south africa after baron bm’s death, where she herself died in 1972 and I have some very vague memories of her. Bm and eva had two children: david, my father, and ivor. Ivor had three children, gillian, giles and julia. I have one sister, linzi and one brother, elliot.

My father died of a heart attack in 1995, and it was literally days before that he happened to mention “uncle bertie”, so I had heard the name and it is quite a poignant one in my memory. I am afraid though I know even less about him than you, just that he was shot down in the war.
I don’t know of any rosalie, and I don’t know of any twins in the family.

I don’t know all that much about my grandpa, baron morris, who died a couple of years before I was born, and as is the tradition in the family I was given his name (my own first son is david). I do though have many pictures which i would be very happy to share if you want to send your email addresses to baronfrankal@gmx.de. I think baron was a watch salesman at some point, and spent some time in geneva, as I have seen him in front of the fountain there, although it may just have been a holiday. He was ill in later life and his doctors recommended he leave the manchester climate, which is why they emigrated to south africa, with my father, although he left once he got to 18 because of the regime. I have bm’s passport (which I’d also be happy to scan over), expiry 1961, and it says he was born in london on 16 february 1897, was 5 foot 8 and a half inches (taller than me), had dark brown hair and eyes, and lists, I think “representative” as his profession (it’s har to read). He has a liverpool foreign office stamp from 1956, and a capetown one from 1961 and then I can see the passport was renewed in capetwon to 1996 for 2 rand. It is “registered for permanent residence” on 2 january 1957, with, I think, some sort of renewal in 1962 and a further stamp from durban in 1966.

I am trying to understand, and I am hoping betty you will know (as you were searching in the first place) how baron morris fits into the family you have between you painted so well. I am guessing that perhaps he is leon heiman frankal’s brother, which would give some new meaning to my own middle name.

Wishing you both the very best, baron leon frankal

Offline Annette7

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Re: Baron Morris FRANKAL
« Reply #8 on: Friday 06 September 13 20:20 BST (UK) »
Baron Leon Frankal - I'm pretty sure that your latest posting will be modified by the moderator in due course, as email addresses not allowed, nor details of living people.   Sure hope that Betty sees it before it gets 'moderated'.

At the risk of sticking my nose in (having no connection to the family) I just wanted to say that Baron Morris Frankal b.16/2/1897 was in fact the son of Leon Heiman Frankal, not brother.

The latter married first wife Dora Louise Schneider 1895 (he is listed as Harman Leon Frankal but suspect Harman probably mistranscription) - she died 1910 Hackney.   He is shown on census as bc.1867 Poland (Russian subject) and died June qtr.1943 Hendon.

Hopefully Betty will fill in the rest for you.

Annette
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