Wisdom Smith - Yet again!

[jamajo]

Hi BG,

         Not sure if this is your Sophia or not

   1841   HO107 / 897 / 11/9/ 10


Sophia Smith age 61, occ seller of matches

   Address Bede House Row, Oakham Lords Hold, Rutlandshire

Acouple of doors away are a William Turner age 33 occ builder and wife Lucy age 28 and children
and 1 door away from them are Edward Smith age 30 occ ag lab and his wife Sophia age 40.
Their eldest dau age 20 is a straw hat maker.

           Sue

[starlemusique]

I really hate to put a spanner in the works, and I haven't looked all the way through the site yet so I don't know if you know yet.

Wisdom Smith who married Priscilla Bagley was actually the son of Thomas Smith and Mary Ann Welstead. We have the marriage certificate.

[babygirl101]

Hi

Yes, you are quite correct, with so many Wisdom Smiths it's a minefield trying to work it out and often we get it wrong.

Charles Bagley (c1842) married as Charles Smith m. Lucy Austin 9th Dec 1861. On the marriage certificate it gives Robert Bagley as Charles' father. Lucys father is named as William Austin, chairbottom maker. Lucy and Charles were living in Tetsworth at the time of the marriage.

Robert Bagley had at least two children, Charles and Priscilla Bagley (b. c 1834). Priscilla then married Wisdom Smith (c 1820), Shorehampton Oxon and as you say he was the son of Thomas Smith and Mary Wellstead. I haven't as yet done any research into who Lucys family were, but given her fathers occupation and I recall her mother was from Wiltshire, I'm assuming for now that they too were travellers.

One mystery completed on to the next.

BG 

[starlemusique]

Hi,

Yes. Wisdom's are a nice conundrum to keep us working hard.

Robert and Saibi Bagley had 8 children as far as we know but we have Priscilla as b: c1818 in Brackley, Northamptonshire c: 16 FEB 1818 in Brackley Saint Peter, Northampton.

Do you know who Wisdom b 1830 married?

[babygirl101]

I would go with your dates, not mine, I haven't done much research into them as yet, apart from looking at the murder of Lucy and making a connection (wrongly) to Wisdom.

As for a marriage for the other Wisdom, having detached him from Priscilla, no, he's sitting in the corner waiting for me to do some more research into his life. If I find anything I'll be sure to let you know.

BG   

[Sasha]

Oh, this is a coincidence, because I was looking at this a couple of days ago, and was going to post something similar, and I think I might know what became of the Wisdom Smith born c.1834 in Saxilby.

A few days ago I came across the following marriage:

Jan 2nd 1899 – Upper Armley – Isaiah Smith, 42, bachelor, hawker, Upper Armley, father Wisdom Smith hawker to Mary Ann Charlotte, 39, spinster, Upper Armley, father Edward Charlotte hawker, witnesses John Cooper and Elizabeth Boswell.

Isaiah Smith and Mary Ann Charlotte had been together some time before they got married (see the 1881 census entry below).  It was Wisdom Smith as a father that threw me.  Now, I can only find only likely fit, via the 1861 census.

1861 – Barlborough Notts
Tebithe Smith head widow 35 besom maker Casterton Lincs
Diniah dau 11 Wiston Yorks (IGI 13 May 1849 Whiston d/o Wisdom and Tabatha Smith)
Isiah son 9 Ossington Notts
Wisdom son 5 Bottomsall Notts
Nancy dau 5 Howton Parnall Yorks (IGI 7 Mar 1858 – Hooton Pagnell Yorks – Una Smith d/o Wisdom and Tabitha Smith)
Wisdom head mar 51 Woolsthorpe Leics
Hannah wife 50 Boston
Semiller dau 24 Ragson Lincs
Rudolfer son 21 Corringham Lincs
William son 20 Lindric Common Yorks
Sarah dau 18 Willoten Lincs
Elden du 9 Dunham Lincs
Moses Mobs head unm 22 chair bottomer Lough Fen Huton Yorks
Silvey Smith woman 21 Corringham Lincs
Richos Smith son 11 months Gainsborough
William Gray head mar 41 tinner and brazier Cambridgeshire
Mary wife mar 35 Coloten Leics
Edengirl dau 16 Fulbeck Lincs
Joseph son 13 Fulbeck Lincs
Diniah dau 10 Wadington Lincs
Sarah dau 9 Villinger Lincs
Richard son 7 Branston Lincs
John son 4 Martin Lincs
William son 2 Woodhall Lincs
Isiah Heaps head mar 39 besom maker Snelston Derbys (see note below)
Hannah wife mar 37 Snelston Derbys
Cornealias son 15 Adic Yorks
Unellie dau 18 Livington Yorks
George H. son 6 Crich Derbyshire
Mary dau 10 months Attercliffe Yorks

The only likely Wisdom Smith I can find, of an age to be the husband of Tabitha, is the Wisdom Smith born c.1834 Saxilby, and who obviously died prior to 1861.  The only fly in the ointment is that I can’t find a death registered to fit this.

Fast forward to the 1881 census:

1881 – Attercliffe cum Darnall
Isaac Smith head unm 26 hawker Retford (Isaiah s/o Wisdom Smith and Tabitha)
Mary A. Charlotte wife unm 21 hawker Kirton Lindsey (d/o Edward Charlotte)
Annie Smith dau 8 months Carbrook Yorks (IGI 1 Aug 1880 Carbrook d/o Isaiah and Mary Ann Smith)
Taperty Smith mother wid 60 hawker nk (Tabitha widow of Wisdom Smith?)
Rabbi Smith brother unm 18 coal miner Doncaster
William Smith head mar 20 hawker Bradford
Sophia wife mar 19 hawker Leicestershire
Priscilla dau 11 months Carbrook Yorks
Edward Smith head mar 55 hawker nk
Rachel wife mar 53 hawker nk
Edward son unm 18 hawker Tinsley Yorks
Joseph Spike head unm 25 coal miner Bolsover
N. Smith – unm 25 Houghton Parnell Yorks (Una/Nancy/Nonisse Smith d/o Wisdom and Tabitha Smith)
Harriet dau 6 Bolsover
Darner dau 5 Carbrook (IGI 27 Aug 1876 Dinah d/o Joseph and Viesy Smith)
Joe son 2 Carbrook
Flora dau 3 months Carbrook (IGI 2 Jan 1881 Carbrook d/o Nonisse Smith)
William Carter head mar 35 travelling grinder Burton on Trent
Barnett wife mar 35 Mettam Lincs (Violet Smith d/o Robert and Bathwell Nettleham 1844)
Mary A. dau 16 Ilkeston
William A. son 10 Burton on Trent
Christopher son 7 Nottingham
Joshua son 5 Derby (IGI born 6 Apr 1876 – Joseph s/o William and Violetta Carter)
Silvey dau 2 weeks Carbrook (IGI Carbrook 13 Apr 1881 d/o William and Violetta Carter)

Note – Isiah Heaps actually a Smith – his son Cornelius is, I believe, the father to Isaac Smith who married Hannah Charlotte Dec 26th 1898 Upper Armley.

There were also two other marriages in the Dec 1898/Jan 1899 period at Armley, all linked.

Jan 2nd 1899 Rowland Smith 24 father Robert Smith to Drusilla Smith 21, father William Smith (think that Drusilla is Priscilla in the 1881 entry above).

Dec 26th 1898 Robert Smith, full age, father Dosher Smith deceased, to Sabina Charlotte of full age father Edmund Charlotte deceased.  (Robert and Sabina are the parents of Rowland Smith above, but who is Dosher Smith???)

Jo. 

[babygirl101]

Jo, it certainly looks to be the w/o Wisdom b 1834, but he was obviously quite a bit younger than his wife. It looks as if he either died very young i.e. between 1856 and 1861 or Tebithe just said she was widowed and maybe he was 'at her majestys' lol.

It also gives us another Wisdom to follow up i.e. their son b. 1856, so I'll have to start looking for him now.

It does beg the question then, who was Tebithe?

Sorry, yet more questions than answers.

BG 

[babygirl101]

I've also just noticed that in 1861 she managed to produce 2 children in totally different locations - Wisdom aged 5 and Nanacy aged 5 - just about feasible but quite an achievement lol

BG 

[Sasha]

I've also just noticed that in 1861 she managed to produce 2 children in totally different locations - Wisdom aged 5 and Nanacy aged 5 - just about feasible but quite an achievement lol

BG 

Lol, not even noticed that!

The only Tabitha I've come across is the one born c.1803, d/o Wisdom and Hannah and wife of William Gray, and I'd put money on this Tabitha/Tebithe tying back into the same family line.

I actually got the parish register entries of the four marriages at Armley as I thought the Sabina who married Robert Smith was the daughter of my OH's ancestors, Dennis Smith and Eleanor Charlotte.  Turns out from the marriage that her father was actually Edward Charlotte (who I think is probably a brother of Eleanor Charlotte).  The Charlotte's are definitely all mixed up in this somehow, but I can't for the life of me see how yet.

Jo.