Lamont's from Scotland

[KAJ58]

Interesting - My grandmother (Margaret McGUire)'s death certificate has John McGuire (Shipyard Riviter) and Margaret McGuire (nee Harkins) previously McElhenney as parents. Margaret McGuire (grandmother)was married to William Harkness Jardine in Glasgow in 1908.

[Chezz]

Hi,
Just had a look at my tree and I have Margaret (nee Harkins,McLLhenny) McGuire born 1853,she had a sister called Bridget born 1849 no Elizabeths as sisters.
The only Elizabeth (my great grandmother) is Margaret & John McGuire's daughter.
I really wish that your Margaret McGuire was part of my family.
Chezz.

[KAJ58]

Thanks Cheez, 
I was hoping this might solve a gap in the tree - thought I was on to something.  I think I really need to find my grandmothers birth certificate - Margaret Jardine (nee McGuire). Her death certificate has her 60 years in 1941 when she passed away and I know she was married in Glasgow on 12 September 1908. 

I haven't been able to find any more information yet so if anyone has any info it would be nice.

[flst]

Hi, have you viewed Margaret's marriage certificate? It's available on scotlandspeople website. It will give her age, address & names of parents.You can then try & wirk backwards through the censuses.
flst

P.S.Welcome to rootschat! 

[KAJ58]

Thanks for that - need to buy some more credits and I will do that!  I wasted for the first 30 looking at the wrong this - inexperience!

This is a fun and addictive pasttime I must say.

[MonicaL]

Hi KAJ58 and Chezz

I think from the info you have both recently posted, you are likely both talking about the same families. KAJ58, the death cert details for your grandmother certainly have the same details as Chezz has for her ggrandmother Elizabeth's family you would think.

Some further ideas for research:

You have the 1886 marriage for John McGuire and Margaret Harkin/McIlhenny with the relevant details.

You also have the entry (not sure if you have viewed the actual marriage cert) for a Margaret Harkin to a William McIlhenny. Both these certs (together with any relevant death certs) will let you confirm parents for Margaret. There is no confirmation for now that John McGuire was actually your grandmother Margaret's father, KAJ58, given the date of the marriage (1886).

Working through possible censuses. Can't really see anything for the McIlheny family for 1871. For 1881, there is this possible entry (a whole listing of names, I am putting a link together because of the surname):

Margaret McIlhemy, 29, hawker, prisoner, b. Greenock (marital status not showing on the transcript I am looking at)
Margt McIlhemy, 10 months, a prisoner's daughter b. Greenock

Address: 3 Nelson St. West Prison, Greenock West

There is a birth showing in 1880 in Greenock for a Margaret McIlhenny which likely fits with the above census entry? Details from this cert would help to confirm whether the right entry for young Margaret. What would also really help is confirmation of Margaret's birth place, from her 1911 census entry after her marriage.

There is also a death showing in 1879 in Greenock for a William McIlhenny, born c. 1846. KAJ58, you should be able to confirm it is the right entry from parents' details given for him and wife's name's etc.

For 1891, after the 1886 marriage and the birth of the two girls you have Chezz, including your ggrandmother:

John McGuire 41, Ship Yard Labourer
Margt McGuire 40
Ann McGuire 4
Elizth McGuire 1

Address: 59 Dalrymple St, Greeonock

No sign of young Margaret there in 1891, but a few possible entries for example for a Margaret McGuire in an orphanage in Glasgow, born in Greenock.

Monica 

[MonicaL]

A  little bit more....

If William McIlhenney has died and wife Margaret and baby Margaret are showing at West Prison in Greenock West for 1881, was wondering what had happened to Rose born in 1870 and Mary born in 1873.

I think there is a death for Rose (showing indexed on SP) in 1870 in Greenock. Can't see a death for Mary before 1881, so wonder whether this is her:

Mary McIlhenny, 7, inmate, born in Greenock
Address: 72 Abercromby Street, Calton, Glasgow.
Madam Mc Nally. Superioress of the Catholic Orphanage for Females

Possible entry for her back in Greenock for 1891, working at the Richie household:

Mary McIlheney, 17, Gen Dom Serv b. Greenock
Address: 1 Dock Breast, Greenock

Struggling with 1901, unless she has taken to using her mother's second marriage name:

Mary Mcguire 27, head, Slick (?spl) Factory Worker b. Greenock...could this be Mary McIlneney?
Maggie Mcguire 20, sister, Wool Millworker b. Greenock...is this your Margaret, KAJ58?
Annie Mcguire 16, sister, Wool Millworker b. Greenock...could this be first born of John and Margaret?

Address: 1 Waverley Lane, Greenock

Chezz, I struggled very early on to find John and Margaret on the 1901 census...still struggling! Have you been able to make headway on that entry?

One thing that might help is perhaps to cross check on witnesses names at the marriages of Margaret and Elizabeth (also Annie and maybe Mary) to see who acted as a witness, hoping to pick up on one of the (half)sisters names.

Monica

[MonicaL]

  Chezz, one possibility for your ggrandmother in 1901:

Lizzie Macguire, 10, boarder, b. Greenock
Address: Smyllum Orphanage, Lanark

Smyllum not a great place (not that any of these were...) www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,468949.0.html

See also,

I have a contact address for the Smyllum Orphanage records, where my relatives, who lived in Leith were sent even though it was out of county.  I have found them to be very helpful.

The Archivist
Sisters of Charity of St Vincent De Paul Provincial House The Ridgeway
Mill Hill
London
NW7 1EH

The other cert that would be good to check is the likely death entry for mother Margaret. There is a death entry for a 59 year old Margaret Harkins/McGuire in Gourock, Renfrewshire in 1909. Again, apart from all the useful info included on Scottish death certs, the informant's name for her death registration might also help here.

Monica

[KAJ58]

Thanks Monica,


Great information - so much to digest and confirm.  Do you know if it is possible, if it turns out to be the Margaret in prison, to get a copy of the transcript or what she was in there for.

Can't wait for the weekend to have more time!  Thanks everyone!