Author Topic: the gypsy family- the myth of taking children - Whitehouse/Bentley; Taylor/Smith  (Read 15497 times)

Offline Steve G

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,092
  • My Maternal Great Gran ~ Polly Burge
    • View Profile
Re: the gypsy family- the myth of taking children - Whitehouse/Bentley; Taylor/Smith
« Reply #27 on: Saturday 29 August 09 19:56 BST (UK) »
Interestingly, mate; Cornwell isn't listed ~ though, as I'm so often at pains to point out; That of itself disproves nothing. However, Cordwell is. Sussex and Wiltshire. I don't suppose a randomly picked up phone directory would be exactly lifting with either name?

Brignell, I can't really come too close, in this listing. Bridge, Bridges and Bridgen are as near as it gets. Bridgen is 1891, Essex and Norfolk though ..... 'Interestingly' close on two counts there then.  Similarity of name and geographical closeness.

 Actually, Bob lists two more books. Each, seemingly, pretty much straight directories of Gypsy names. I wonder ....?
 
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')

Offline Redroger

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,498
  • Dad and Fireman at Kings Cross 13.7.1951
    • View Profile
Re: the gypsy family- the myth of taking children - Whitehouse/Bentley; Taylor/Smith
« Reply #28 on: Saturday 29 August 09 20:42 BST (UK) »
Thanks Steve, What are the book titles please?
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

Offline Steve G

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,092
  • My Maternal Great Gran ~ Polly Burge
    • View Profile
Re: the gypsy family- the myth of taking children - Whitehouse/Bentley; Taylor/Smith
« Reply #29 on: Saturday 29 August 09 21:11 BST (UK) »
Gypsy Names for Genealogists Vol 1: Surnames. Vol. 2 is Forenames. Self produced in 2000.

 I strongly suspect though that the same information was later (2005) brought together in the book I have (Here.)

 I'd also draw ye attention to one of Bob's pages; Here.

 :)

GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')


Offline northern girl

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 4
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: the gypsy family- the myth of taking children - Whitehouse/Bentley; Taylor/Smith
« Reply #30 on: Sunday 30 August 09 15:35 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the links......i like the sound of Bobs book!!
I was told by my grandmother she was from a travellers background.......i have coopers, ayres, Harris (who was a hawker)......plus more names that have cropped up here.....
I don't want to assume that they are from the travelling community, more work is needed yet.....
Regardless......one way or another i now have more respect for the travelling community, which can only be a good thing.
Cheers Steve.......and thanks for the info you always impart in such a good friendly manner......which goes for many others on here too, who are only too willing to help those of us in need.......:)

Offline Steve G

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,092
  • My Maternal Great Gran ~ Polly Burge
    • View Profile
Re: the gypsy family- the myth of taking children - Whitehouse/Bentley; Taylor/Smith
« Reply #31 on: Sunday 30 August 09 16:36 BST (UK) »
 Northern Girl; I was born a Southern Bloke myself. But I still grew up knowing the (local) Cooper's and Harris'. My own Auntie bringing Ayres with her.

 Now, according to Bob, he can only find the Harris' on the road till 1915. Interesting and worthy of note in itself. See; I knew Harris' who would pass for 'picture book Romany Gypsys' (I mean; Just add huge ear ring and violin!). Yet they were settled.

 For all that though, while they lived in houses and gave off no overt signs of their heritage, one could always expect them to turn up at the annual Fairs! ;)

 What I think it is ~ although it's never before really crossed my mind to try and look into it before ~ I think it's something about the war / post war period. Something happened then. Maybe the building of the council estates?

 Only I have this educated idea, in the corner of my mind, about how a whole wave of Gypsys came in off the road about then. That generation took to houses. There they hunkered down and got on with burying themselves amongst the traditionally settled population.

 Only thing is; It was also ~ I suspect ~ that generation which started, if not outright forsaking, then certainly 'putting their roots away'. And they taught their children ('our' parents, maybe) to be good little Gaujo's and fit in.

 Thus, by the time 'we' came along? Our own people really remembered only a 'normal' life ~ and maybe the whispered tales of what our Grandparents grew up with.

 What does that leave us to tell 'Our' children? Well; Maybe something along the lines of, " There's always been a whisper, amongst the older folk, that we may be descended from Gypsys. And, it must be said, some bloke in a forum is pretty insistent that many of the older names I know of in our past are names known to have been commonly used by Gypsys back then. "

 Unfortunately, 'our' kids response to such a suggestion these days is just as likely to look confused for a moment. Then blurt out something like; " What? Pikeys?!? >:( "

 So much has been lost to us :(

I have no kids of my own. If I did, I'd have had Grand kids by now ::) But I know one thing for sure. If I were walking a grand child of mine down the road and a Bedford or (these days) Mercedes truck came by, laden with scrap metal and showing a tow bar? If any grand child of mine said, " Look, Gramps! Pikeys! >:( ". I'd gently correct the little toe rag;

 " They'll be Gypsys, son. They're gathering what people in houses have slung out and left to mess the place up. Your Great Grand parents did that. So did I ..... "

 Let the little sod choke on that one! ;D
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')

Offline Redroger

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,498
  • Dad and Fireman at Kings Cross 13.7.1951
    • View Profile
Re: the gypsy family- the myth of taking children - Whitehouse/Bentley; Taylor/Smith
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 30 August 09 18:58 BST (UK) »
Thank you Steve, Looks like that's another 16.00 quid gone.Reading your last posting, I like your style!!
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

Offline realdizzy

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 3
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
My 95 year old dad (he's in great health, mentally and physically!) told me recently about how the Gypsies would take kids.  In fact, he said was walking to school one morning, around 7 years old or so, he spotted a caravan of gypsies coming down the road.  He said he got down as low as he could in some tall grass and thankfully they didn't see him as they passed by.  He was pretty scared!

Offline shehen23

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 10
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
My 95 year old dad (he's in great health, mentally and physically!) told me recently about how the Gypsies would take kids.  In fact, he said was walking to school one morning, around 7 years old or so, he spotted a caravan of gypsies coming down the road.  He said he got down as low as he could in some tall grass and thankfully they didn't see him as they passed by.  He was pretty scared!
:  My advice to you would be to contact the police and ask them if there have been any cases of children being taken by gypsies. If this myth had any basis in reality the authorities would have some information on it - after all they're quick enough to blame travelers for everything else. I think you'll find it's utter garbage. Sadly children were told these stories so often they grew up believing it. The reason your grandfather hid was because of the false perception not because he was in actual danger. The truth is that gypsies traveled in family groups, and children were brought up by the whole community. When parents died or travelled away for work other family members would take care of the children, especially if they had none of their own. There's really no mystery
Hedges, Collins, Ayres, Lee, Eastwood, Matthews, Finney, Brazil, Beldom, Winter, Gregory, Hughes, Boswell,

Offline Yasmina4

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Someone stated that gypsies came from India originally.  Is this really so and i so when and how did they arrive?

I had thought they originated in Egypt but I can remember an argument between a friend and  with a Povindah in  Quetta,Pakistan, a very beautiful and proud young gypsy  girl who was in fact in the right. Incidentally she was very fair skinned. Sandra