Author Topic: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.  (Read 40262 times)

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.
« Reply #36 on: Monday 05 January 09 12:19 GMT (UK) »
Interesting about the enlisting, David - yes, seems quite possible he had to travel to enlist if that was the practice, in which case, Annie might have chosen to accompany him, or he could have sent for her later.

Regarding the Bedwells, I was wondering if they are related to the missing father's family... I think I'm right in saying that Annie gave birth to Francis there didn't she?  Supposing the father was abroad fighting,  can we assume that Annie planned to have her baby with the Bedwells?  She obviously couldn't go back to her parents, could she?  And if (as we assume in this scenario) the father was killed, this would have reduced poor Annie to penury, unable to support her children.  What a terrible dilemma to be in.  If this was the situation, one can understand why Annie chose to 'abandon' her children to the Bedwells, which would have been the best thing she could do for them in the circumstances.

But what puzzles me is that if this scenario is correct, why didn't she and the father of her children marry before he went abroad? 

Thanks for the shovel, I hope to put it to good use.  (Am currently in a cul-de-sac with my lot, being unable to get back beyond 1541 and unable to link the Suffolk family with an earlier one in Norfolk! So I am quite enjoying this little adventure with Annie...

Greensleeves
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Suffolk Mawther

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Re: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.
« Reply #37 on: Monday 05 January 09 15:21 GMT (UK) »
 ;D   - Greensleeves, our Bridges family hop over the border around 1500 and appear in Norfolk, need to get back up to the NRO and do some more research.  I know the feeling of being stuck in that cul-de-sac.

I have been visiting daughter, son in law and 9 months old grandson Henry for a few days - in Nottingham, where I have recently begun researching on Henry's behalf, as he has so much information on his maternal family roots, but nothing on his paternal Nottinghamshire roots.


As for your area of research Coombs, still rural and how it has been for so many years, not so much infil building in those villages and with only Letheringham Water Mill open on some weekends in the summer, Easton Farm Park and Hach Fest just once a year - they all remain pretty quiet. 


A few years ago I did some research for a friend's father who had been a Barnardo's boy.
I discovered that his mother had been a Barnardo's girl and her brothers had been sent to Canada.
When the three children lost their mother, their father was desperate and left the children with Barnardo's fully intending to collect them as soon as he could cope.  When he did remarry and try to get them back, the daughter was in London and the boys across the Atlantic. 

I think that 'informal adoptions' in rural areas were not uncommon.  More often than not the adoptees were relations of some sort, but not always.
I suppose checking out the Bedwell family would be a good idea to see if any links?

Perhaps the father of Annie's children was considered 'above her station'.
With the family I researched, the daughter sent to London ended up in service in the home counties and had a child - the chap that I was carrying out the research for - and she gave him up for adoption to Barnardo's!!!

However, we were able to work out who his father was, the young master of the house where she was in service (middle name - inherited pocket watch etc etc). 
In tracking down today's descendants of that family they welcomed my chap with open arms and said that they feel certain that he must have half-brothers and sisters as his mother was not the first young girl who had been taken advantage of by the young master  :o

Their great-great uncle had a reputation  ::)

It was a great deal of information for a chap in his late 80s to take in - but he now has cousins in Canada that he telephones regularly and despite his own large family, he now has cousins and their families too.

Sorry to ramble on, but who knows what you might find eventually  :)

I'll take a trowel and see if I can come up with any ideas too  ;)

Pat ...

Hope I gave you enough smileys  :D



Every time I find an ancestor,
I have to find two more!

SUFFOLK - Pendle, Stygall, Pipe, Fruer, Bridges, Fisk, Bellamy, Sparham - all link to  Framlingham 
DERBY - Bridges and Frost (originally Framlingham/Parham)
NOTTINGHAM - Lambert & Selby
BERKSHIRE/then Hammersmith LDN - Fulker
LDN/MDX - Murray, Clancy, Broker, Hoskins, Marsden, Wilson, Sale
 
GGfather Michael Wilson born Cork, lived Fulham London - moved to Boston USA 1889, what happened next?

Offline onefortheroad

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Re: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.
« Reply #38 on: Monday 05 January 09 22:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi again Greensleeves.

Sorry for the delay in replying. We've had a very rare but extremely annoying power cut.By the time we'd made emergency arrangements, it was back on !

Anyway, yes you're right about Frank. According to the 1901 census, he was born in Earsham so either Annie knew the Bedwells (or knew OF them) or it's pure coincidence that they all sort of came together in the one spot at the right time.

I,ve posted a look-up request for the Earsham parish records to try and find Frank's birth cert.  That may give us a little more info - or not, as the case may be.
I've also posted on the Nottinghamshire section to see if anyone knows what kind of property 86 Appleton Gate Newark is.This is the address on Constance's birth cert. for place of birth.

With regard to a marriage Greensleeves, if the lady in the 1901 census in Leeds is the same Annie  (this one's spelled AUSTIN and the birth year is a wee bit out), then they may have married. Annie E. Austin is down as a widow in the Leeds 1901.

Hi again Pat.  Barnados; now thats an idea. Excuse my ignorance, but were they going at the end of the 19thcentury. If so, would they have  records going back that far?

The possibility of a liaison with a gentleman 'above her station' is also in interesting possibility, Pat.  Having looked again at Constances birth cert., Annie is entered as Housekeeper Domestic. I wonder if she was actually living and working at 86 Appleton Gate.

Anyway, a bit of light trowel work would be most welcome.

I'll post tomorrow with any updates - said wishfully !

Kind regards, David.
Yorkshire: Riley, Holdstock, Smith, Turner, Pearson, Bailey, Swift.
Devon: Spry, Gimblett, Sleep, Wyvell(Wyvill), Fox, Kingsbear.
Lancashire; Squires (Swires ?).
Norfolk/Suffolk: Auston, Bedwell, Crooks, Charlish.
Essex: Auston,.

Offline Suffolk Mawther

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Re: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.
« Reply #39 on: Tuesday 06 January 09 01:11 GMT (UK) »
Hello David,

My friend, daughter of the gentleman I was carrying out the research for, had all the paperwork from Barnardo's.  Certainly the children of the family I was researching were placed with them in the mid 1890s.
I think the first Barnardo Ragged Schools in London were set up in the 1860s. 
I was researching in Yorkshire.

As we knew my friends father was a Barnardo's boy we were able to get his paperwork, when it arrived we discovered his mother had been in one of their homes too and we were able to send off for her paperwork - which is when we found all the details on the family.

Here is their main website
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/index.htm

Night Night
Pat ...
Every time I find an ancestor,
I have to find two more!

SUFFOLK - Pendle, Stygall, Pipe, Fruer, Bridges, Fisk, Bellamy, Sparham - all link to  Framlingham 
DERBY - Bridges and Frost (originally Framlingham/Parham)
NOTTINGHAM - Lambert & Selby
BERKSHIRE/then Hammersmith LDN - Fulker
LDN/MDX - Murray, Clancy, Broker, Hoskins, Marsden, Wilson, Sale
 
GGfather Michael Wilson born Cork, lived Fulham London - moved to Boston USA 1889, what happened next?


Offline onefortheroad

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Re: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.
« Reply #40 on: Tuesday 06 January 09 12:57 GMT (UK) »
Hi everyone.

Thanks for the link, Pat. I've contacted Barnardos and am awaiting a reply.

Well, I've spent all morning trailing through the 1891 census for Earsham and surrounding villages ( Bungay, Homersfield and Ditchingham ), emuneration district by emuneration district and there was definitely no Asthill (of any spelling) .

However, what I did find was the House of Mercy at Ditchingham (run by the Sisters of Mercy) which incorporated the All Hallows Orphanage.
Ditchingham is only two miles or so from Earsham. Were  Annie  and Constance taken in C1897/8?  Was Frank born here?  Were the children adopted from here by the Bedwells?

This, surely, is a posibility and would provide the link between Annie and The Bedwells.  Or am I clutching at straws ?

Now where did I put that shovel?

David
Yorkshire: Riley, Holdstock, Smith, Turner, Pearson, Bailey, Swift.
Devon: Spry, Gimblett, Sleep, Wyvell(Wyvill), Fox, Kingsbear.
Lancashire; Squires (Swires ?).
Norfolk/Suffolk: Auston, Bedwell, Crooks, Charlish.
Essex: Auston,.

Offline Suffolk Mawther

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Re: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.
« Reply #41 on: Tuesday 06 January 09 17:43 GMT (UK) »
All Hallows is still there.

It is an Anglican Community of Nuns who run a hospital - I think nowadays it is just for the elderly (I know a few years ago a friend of mother in law went there to recuperate after surgery in Ipswich Hospital).

Try http://www.all-hallows.org.uk/default.htm

Might be able to find out about their history.

Think this might be better as this is for the whole of the All Hallows Community http://www.all-hallows.org/content/retreats/programme/retreat-houses/all-hallows-house-ditchingham

Pat ...

Every time I find an ancestor,
I have to find two more!

SUFFOLK - Pendle, Stygall, Pipe, Fruer, Bridges, Fisk, Bellamy, Sparham - all link to  Framlingham 
DERBY - Bridges and Frost (originally Framlingham/Parham)
NOTTINGHAM - Lambert & Selby
BERKSHIRE/then Hammersmith LDN - Fulker
LDN/MDX - Murray, Clancy, Broker, Hoskins, Marsden, Wilson, Sale
 
GGfather Michael Wilson born Cork, lived Fulham London - moved to Boston USA 1889, what happened next?

Offline onefortheroad

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Re: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.
« Reply #42 on: Tuesday 06 January 09 19:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi Pat.

Thanks again for the links. I've emailed the convent to see if they still have access to records  -  fingers crossed.

Genuki have quite some detail on the old House of Mercy and the Orphanage

What I didn't know was that Henry R Haggard was a resident of Ditchingham.
I recall, when I was a child, about the only thing that was ever mentioned of my Grandmother (Constance) 's family was that her mother had worked for the famous author, Sir Ryder Haggard as housekeeper.

I'm afraid I long since filed that one, with most of the other family tales, under   'B' for Boloney.

Still, maybe the good sisters will come up with something, or maybe Barnardos.

Regards, David.
Yorkshire: Riley, Holdstock, Smith, Turner, Pearson, Bailey, Swift.
Devon: Spry, Gimblett, Sleep, Wyvell(Wyvill), Fox, Kingsbear.
Lancashire; Squires (Swires ?).
Norfolk/Suffolk: Auston, Bedwell, Crooks, Charlish.
Essex: Auston,.

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.
« Reply #43 on: Tuesday 06 January 09 20:17 GMT (UK) »
Good evening David - I note the continuing excavations with interest!  Am afraid I am back to work now after the Christmas break, so have not had much time to pursue the shades of Annie.  However, I have come across this:

http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/blagg1910/cartergate.htm

which you will see gives quite a lot of info on Appletongate circa 1910.  Seems quite a select area, specialising in scholars and priests by the look of it!

Right, got my shovel, am off again for another session....

Greensleeves
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline onefortheroad

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Re: Westgate St. IPSWICH - 1891.
« Reply #44 on: Tuesday 06 January 09 21:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi Greensleeves.

First day back at work, eh. Not a nice experience, I seem to remember. I went into semi-retirement (health induced) in August '07. What a shock to the system that was !

Anyway, what an interesting site that is, Greensleeves. Appletongate seems to have been at the top end of the market doesn't it.
Did you see in one of my replies that I'd had a closer look at Constance's birth cert. and saw that Annie's occupation is given as Housekeeper Domestic. So 86 Appletongate is probably her place of work as well as her abode. Unfortunately, she probably lost her job and home when Constance came along - conjecture again, I know, but it would seem to be the way things were then.

I'm hoping the sisters at Ditchingham turn something up as that would at least be one firm stepping stone on which we could stand.

Well, must get on...

Regards, David.

After thought :  There wouldn't be an ASTILL living in Appletongate, would there ?
Yorkshire: Riley, Holdstock, Smith, Turner, Pearson, Bailey, Swift.
Devon: Spry, Gimblett, Sleep, Wyvell(Wyvill), Fox, Kingsbear.
Lancashire; Squires (Swires ?).
Norfolk/Suffolk: Auston, Bedwell, Crooks, Charlish.
Essex: Auston,.