helping a newbie!!

[Barbara F]

Have just tracked the family in 1881  - details to follow.

Barbara

[Barbara F]

1881
Nether Field, Hoyland Nether
Wm. Taylor Head Mar 27  Clogger b Leeds Yorks
Elizbth. Taylor 25 b Gloucester
Annie Maria Taylor 10 b Leeds Yorks
Harry Taylor 5 b Leeds Yorks
Wm. Taylor 4 b Leeds Yorks
Sarah Taylor 3 b Leeds Yorks
Helen Taylor 1 b Stutton Yorks
Jimmy Taylor 8 months b Hoyland Yorks
John P. Allinson Boarder 25  Clogger b Yorkshire
Rachel Ragan 19  Servant b Gt Houghton Yorkshire

RG11  4608 f 59

John is not with the family so could well be the boy with the Harrisons. I assume Baby Jimmy must have died as he is not around in 1891.

Barbara

When I checked the Golding family it looked as though they were Travellers which could explain why Elizabeth's birthplace changes!  In 1901 I think it must have simply been convenient to say all the family was born in Leeds

[jillruss]

Well done, Barbara!

Yes - I was beginning to wonder about Elizabeth's various birthplaces!! That would explain it.

I agree - looks like the JW staying with aunt and uncle is their's, but the question is - is he Juliah's???

One thing has sprung to mind, but I'm wondering if I'm just getting a bit too fanciful here: if JW had been 'farmed out' at 9 or younger to his aunt and uncle, who didn't seem to have any children of their own, did he look upon William Harrison as his father, and is it William Harrison who has died prior to 1899?

As Elizabeth Harrison came from Leicestershire, it seems more likely that JW is William's blood nephew, so does that mean his mother Elizabeth might have been William Harrison's sister?

I hope you're following all this, Juliah (not sure I am!). We will be testing you on it later (joke!). Please send for those certs and put us all out of our misery!! 

Jill

[Barbara F]

Searching the 1901 census for a John Taylor born Bradford 1871 +/- 2 gives the following possible for the son of William and Elizabeth

John  - a Steam train driver married to Catherine
John W - a Joiner  married to Eleanor

The others all have wrong middle name/initials or are with parents.

Not sure where that leaves us but a labourer is nearer to a Warehouseman than Train Driver or Joiner.

Barbara

[Barbara F]

Have just seen your reply Jill.

What we need is something to tie the John W married to Rosa to this - or some other family.

Who were the witnesses to his marriage Julia? Do they give any help at all?

Would be wonderful if a family memebr were with John and Rosa in 1911 - but I suspect that is too much to hope for 

Barbara

[jillruss]

Aha!!

Don't know if you agree, but it seems more than likely that the John W, joiner on the 1901 is the one who was with William & Elizabeth Harrison in 1881 as William was a joiner. That's probably why he was living with them - learning the trade. So, I think we can eliminate him from our enquiries.

Also, your 1901 finds may account for the 3 John W births found in Bradford 1870/1 (if we include Juliah's find).

It still doesn't explain where on earth our JW was in 1881.

Murkier and murkier!!!

Jill

[juliah7]

Hi Gill and Barbara,

Regarding John and Rosa`s marriage certificate:The witnesses were a Thomas Edward Livermore who is Rosa`s half brother and an Elizabrth Ann Rounce (who from what i can see on freebmd after doing a birth search for all areas) most likely was a friend of Rosa`s as she appears to have been born in Orsett Essex.  No help what so ever to us!!   Am i following........No.Im more confused than ever!!LOL.At least i am having fun in my search   Even John and Rosa`s kids names dont give me much help.They had 4,Caroline Emily b 1900,she must have been named after Rosa`s younger sister Caroline Emily.Then came John Willie Taylor born 1902 and then came my nan Julia Ann.The name Julia has run in the family but it has been Julia Maude.Maybe Ann is a clue to John`s family or maybe if Rosa and Elizabeth Ann Rounce were really close she may have named her after her....if you know what i mean!!Then there was Lilian Violet born 1909.Doris Harriet Taylor Johnson born 1914 as explained in previous note was by another man.OOH the plot thickens.LOL. There are no Lilian Violet`s in the tree that i can see but that doesn`t really mean a thing.Just to add fuel to fire im going to look a little into the Annie Wilkinson,just to rule it out but....Rosa`s older half sister Sarah ann Livermore married a man called William Wilkinson Fell who came from Driffield Yorkshire.From what i can see William was an only child and his mum i think was Ann Wilkinson so either thay wasn`t married when he was born or she carried her maiden name on by giving him it as his middle name.I am going to now have a quick look to see if Annie Wilkinson`s dad is in anyway related to William Wilkinson Fell`s mother.Now are you all following me. I know it is a very long shot but i would rather rule it out now than find out 5 years down the line that it has been staring me in the face for all this time. Also what do you make of the censuses where there is a JWTaylor living say with his mum who is unmarried and still at home with her parents? Were they allowed to name a man on the certificate,my god they could have put anyone on there?  I ask this as i had my eldest daughter(now 15) before i married her dad and he had to be present to agree that he was going on the certificate.  I am wondering if he was dumped on grandparents or his mum had him out of wedlock and his dad wasn`t around?  Silly questions i know but i don`t really understand the rules and regulations of registering births back then.....that`s if there was any rules!!
Will keep you all posted on how i get on.

Julia.xx

[Barbara F]

Hi Julia

Have a look at this site

http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/births.htm#COL4

Really useful for explaining certificates and registration.

Barbara

[juliah7]

Barbara, i will look at that site in a min:)
Just been on the Bradfordfhs website.Very informative about the area.Not sure how much you and Gill know about the area so i thought i would post what i had found.Not sure if it will help or confuse!!

First of all it states: The registration district of "Bradford West Riding" is used as the society`s geographical area of interest and covers much more than the original township of Bradford. Within this area are Townships and Hamlets such as: Adwalton,Allerton,Bierley,Bolton,Bolton Woods,Bowling,Bradford Moor,Buttershaw,Calverley,Clayton,Cleckheaton,Cullingworth Gate,Denholme,Drighlington,Dudley Hill,East Bierley,East Bowling,Eccleshill,Fagley,Farsley,Frizinghall,Fulneck,Great Horton,Greengates,Heaton,Hewendon,Horton,Hunsworth,Idle,Lsidterdyke,Lidget Green,Little Horton,Low Moor,Manningham,Nabwood,North Bierley,Oakenshaw,Odsal,Pudsey,Qeensbury,Saltaire,Scholes,Shipley,Thornbury,Thornton,Toftshaw,Tong,Troydale,Tyersal,Undercliffe,West Bowling,Wibsey,Wilsden,Windhill,Wrose and Wyke.

It then states Registration sub districts 1851-1891 censuses.The name of each sub-district is in UPPERCASE.Lowercase are chapelries,Hamlets or villiages which were enumerated in that sub-district.
SUBDISTRICTS:WILSDEN, THORNTON, SHIPLEY, IDLE, CALVERLEY, HORTON,BOWLING, PUDSEY,NORTH BIERLEY, DRIGHLINGTON, CLECKHEATON.

Chapelries,Hamlets etc: Hunsworth, Wyke, Tong, Clayton, Denholme, Allerton, Heaton, Manningham, Windhill, Bolton, Eccleshill, Farsley, Thornbury, Tyersal.

Thought i would post this incase you or Jill see anything on the census that i don`t.