Author Topic: Boswell, Gray, Smith and Booth  (Read 7944 times)

Offline Sasha

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Boswell, Gray, Smith and Booth
« on: Thursday 05 February 09 12:15 GMT (UK) »
I've got some information on a couple of marriages that I'm sure will be of interest to a couple of people who visit here, so thought I'd post it.  Also, some of the information on them has surprised me and it's raised a few questions.

7th November 1859, Fledborough, Nottinghamshire
Okey SMITH, full age, bachelor, gypsy, residing at Fledborough, father Lazarus BOSWELL, gypsy to Meraniel BOOTH, full age, spinster, gypsy, residing at Fledborough, father Sydney SMITH, gypsy, witnesses were Magnus and Mary Ann SMITH.

OK, Lazarus Boswell is Elijah Boswell who married Harriet Metcalf, and then had liaisons with Alice, Charlotte and Delizanna Smith.  Meraniel Booth's father is a surprise.

Re. Sydney Smith.  I also have an Edingal (sometimes Mary Ann) Smith, father Sidney Smith (nothing more known about him, info from Edingals marriage) who married Sidney Gray, son of William Gray.
Edingal was born c.1830-1836, Thimbleby or Boston, Lincolnshire and she married Sidney Gray in 1873.  She had a son born about 1865, not sure if the father is Sidney Gray or not, William Thomas Gray, who seems to use the surname BOOTH in later life.  So I'm wondering if Sydney Smith, father of Meraniel Booth is also the father of Edingal?  Also Edingal seems to be travelling with Philistia Smith who is another son of Elijah Boswell, so more links back to that family.

14th November 1859, Fledborough, Nottinghamshire
Magnus SMITH, full age, bachelor, gypsy, residing at Fledborough, father Lazarus BOSWELL, gypsy to Mary Ann SMITH, full age, spinster, residing at Fledborough, father William GRAY, gypsy, witnesses were Meraniel SMITH and Samuel SMITH.

Now William Gray as the father of Mary Ann Smith is a real surprise.  William Gray and Tabitha Smith had a daughter, Mary Gray baptised 1st May 1836 at Welton by Lincoln, who would be sister to the Sidney Gray who married Edingal.  But if this is her, why is she going by the surname Smith?

Magnus Smith and his wife are on the 1861 census at Stanley cum Wrenthorpe, Yorkshire, along with a Harkles Smith born c.1830 Rutland, and his family.
Magney Smith head mar 28 peg maker master Derbyshire
Mary wife mar 24 basket maker Lincolnshire
Albert E. son 1 Lincolnshire (deaf)

There's a death for Magnus Smith, aged 30, Gainsborough, Jun qtr 1870.

Magnus dies in 1870, and Edingal, who is sometimes Mary Ann, marries Sidney Gray in 1873???  But the Edingal who married Sidney Gray, and the Mary Ann who married Magnus Smith can't be the same person, (can they?) as their fathers are different.

Okey and Meraniel I can't find on the census before 1901.  They had one child, Mezanuel, baptised 28th September 1854 at Scotter, Lincolnshire.

1901 – Claythorpe, Lincs
Hookey Smith head mar 64 brush maker and rag/bone dealer Retford
Maraniel wife mar 75 nk
Charles son unm 26 Lincoln (imbecile)
William Booth son unm 40 rag and bone dealer Upton(?) Haxey
Hannah Sykes d-in-law unm 35 Crowle
Albert Smith g/son 12 Treswell Notts
Hookey Sykes g/son 8 Crowle
Sementie Sykes g/dau 2m Goole

1911 and William Booth is camping near Goole, he's married Hannah Sykes and his children are Hookey and Senimenty Booth, and his sister Mezaniel Booth aged 56 and unmarried is living with him.  Okey and Meraniel Smith are living at Retford.  Their son Charles is with them and a 51 year old unmarried daughter, Edingirl, born Morton, Gainsborough.  Also a couple of grandsons, although from the age of one I think he should be a son (not sure how much info from the 1911 I'm allowed to post, can post or PM more details if required).  They say they've had 11 children so there's a fair few baptisms still to be found out there.  ::)

There's a Cinamenta (or Minta) Smith on the 1881 and 1891, travelling with her aged father James Booth who I can't help but think are connected somehow, with Okey's grandaughter being named Senimenty Booth.  (Cinementa born c.1828 Thursby Lincs and James Booth born c.1791-1797 Blisworth Northamptonshire)  I was actually expecting Meraniel Booth's father to be James.

A couple of newspaper extracts from the JGLS found via a google book search:

1909 - Another decrepit horse was the cause, a few days later, of Hookey Smith, a Gypsy of Spital Hill, Retford, suing a local hawker for thirty shillings, the amount for which the animal had been purchased.  Smith, who was a very old man and a cripple, had to be carried in and out of the court.

A very late instance of wayside burial by Gypsies is mentioned in the Lincoln Gazette of April 17, 1917. ' Henry Smith, Albert Smith, Okey Booth, Cinaminta Smith and Mary Ingram, or Blade,' were camping at Haxey three weeks earlier, when Mary Ingram gave birth to a still-born child, which Henrietta Smith, Albert Smith, and Okey Booth buried in the lane at night. Next morning these various Smiths and Okey Booth departed, leaving Mary Ingram with Gertie Smith; and later in the day, when Gertie ' called her,' Mary decided to tell the police what she had done, or caused to be done.  Subsequently the child was disinterred, and there...........

(Think Albert Smith, Okey Booth and Cinaminta Smith are the children of William Booth, and therefore grandchildren of Okey and Maraniel)

Any help in untangling this very gratefully appreciated.  :)

Jo.





Offline Wendy17

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Re: Boswell, Gray, Smith and Booth
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 19 November 09 14:02 GMT (UK) »
Hello,  I have just joined rootschat and also recently established that I am related to the people listed in your post from Feb 09.  This was a while ago now so I am wondering how you are getting on with this and whether you have progressed it further?

I am related to William Gray/Booth, he is my Great x2 Grandfather.
I do however have some different info to you about him.  I came across William as William Booth when he married Martha Key (she was born Martha Thornhill and married William Key but he died) in 1889. The only other info I had from the certificate was that his father was Sidney Booth deceased. 

I was also aware from 1891 Census that William was born at Tuxford in Nottinghamshire. I also knew from 1891 census that there was a relationship to the Gray family as a Sarah and George Gray were listed as children.  I assumed that were the children of Martha as William was not old enough to be their parent.  I was very puzzled by why I could not find any info about William before his marriage.  The only other reference I had for him is from 1911 census where he is with Martha, his daughter Bertha Ann, Bertha's husband and my Grandmother as a baby.

It was only when I went to the archives at Nottingham that I made the connection with the Gray family.  The only William I could find with Sidney as his father born around 1865 in Tuxford was William Gray.   From this I purchased his birth certificate which confirms his father is Sidney and his mother Edingal. 

I also know that George E Gray who was with him in 1891 Census was his brother.  I am unsure whether Sarah was his sister at the moment.

There are other siblings as well Mary Jane, Sophia and David. I have purchased certificates for this which confirm that their parents are Sidney ane Edingal/Mary Ann. 

By the time of the 1891 Census Sidney has already died.  Edingal or Mary Ann as she is listed here is living with her son David and her daughter Sophia who has now married James Mobbs in Gainsborough.  In 1901 I have Edingal still in Gainsborough with her son David and a grandaughter Ellen Smith.

I think this whole issue is very confusing and this is just one part of what I have been researching.  I am interested to see what your opinion is on what I have said above. It is clearly different from the info that you have.

If you are interested I will submit other posts with details about the rest of the family that I am aware of.

Wendy


Offline Lino

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Re: Boswell, Gray, Smith and Booth
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 02 December 09 15:23 GMT (UK) »
hi sasha. i'm lino and i am researching my smith ancestors who were gipsies. i was pleased to read your entry on5/2/09 about senimenty booth and cinaminta smith and i was wondering how you found this information. you mention JGLS as your source. can you tell me how i can find this too please? i may be able to supply you with info too. look forward to hearing from you soon.

Offline Purplesimand

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Re: Boswell, Gray, Smith and Booth
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 07 November 19 20:16 GMT (UK) »
Hi I know it is a long time since you posted but I’ve only just seen your post My grandmother was Sarah Rebeca Grey from Gainsborough and I think she may be the person you talked about in your post although she was not born till the 1900s. Do you think she is the same person?


Offline whiteout7

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Re: Boswell, Gray, Smith and Booth
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 09 November 19 15:35 GMT (UK) »
I'd have a look here ate the Greys and Smiths

http://www.geocities.ws/seraphim_angel_2002/Gypsyindex1.html

Seraphim Angel did a whole lot of work on them

Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline anitabooth2702

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Re: Boswell, Gray, Smith and Booth
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 06 April 24 01:36 BST (UK) »
Hiya,
Cinnamenti smith is my dads great granny and his dad my grandad is Oakey booth who sadly passed few years ago now and  my dads family are smiths and booths, my dads surname is smith-booth
We don’t know a great deal really but cinnamenti isn’t a name you forget tried and tried to find more and just come across this page while searching, family are Gainsborough and doncaster different areas, know that a relation to my dad was Isreal smith too sure he passed in motorbike accident but sure his dad was called Israel too but could be wrong, my granny also passed is jessie booth she was born 2/6/1924 and passed 43 years ago now don’t know much about her family have photo and think one of my dads great granny too, to what we think il get more next week when my parents are back, my dad is Asa booth known as laddie born Thorne in doncaster
Photo is my grandad Isley booth/smith
Lady holding baby my granny jessie booth
Lady with checked coat I’m sure is cinnementi il double check Monday with my dad
  Thankyou
Anita booth