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Author Topic: tracing James Palmer before it is too late-modified post  (Read 11872 times)

Offline Gaille

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Re: tracing James Palmer before it is too late-modified post
« Reply #36 on: Monday 09 February 09 01:05 GMT (UK) »
Quote from: suzard on Monday 09 February 09 01:01 GMT (UK)


I have found Harriet (mother of james) parents and Lots of siblings for her too!!!!

back to 1818 with that side of the family !

Great Gallie has sorted it for you

Don't feel you have to stay online for my posts -you can read them tomorrow - it may be best to do that -don't want you to be overloaded with too much info at one go

Suz

LOL sounds like you are enjoying the chase Suz  ;D

1818 in one hit! well done!  :)
I have one side of my famiily I have been working on for 20 years that I cant get that far - Stuck at great grandad cos he told lies and isnt who he said he is !  :o

Gaille
Manchester – Bate(s) / Bebbington / Coppock or Coppart / Evans / Mitchell / Prince / Smith

Cheshire Latchford – Bibby / Savage / Smith.
Cheshire Macclesfield,  Bollington & Rainow – Childs / Flint / Mc'rea
Cheshire Crewe – Bate(s) / Bebbington
Shropshire Wellington, Wobwell – Smith
Walsall Midds – Smith
Norfolk - Childs / Hanwell / Smith

Also looking for:
Mc'Rea/McCrea – Ireland to Cheshire

And
any relatives of Margaret Bibby married to Thomas Smith all over country

Offline suzard

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Re: tracing James Palmer before it is too late-modified post
« Reply #37 on: Monday 09 February 09 01:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi kammy,

first I'll post the 1881 census -you can look this up free at familysearch - but thought I'd better post it as it links in with other census

1881
17 Court, Eagle St Birmingham
Phillip Palmer head m 23 Pickler at Galvaniing works
harriet wife 22
margaret daughter 3
Leonard son 6mth
all b Wolverhmpton

and living next door but at no 1
Sarah Bill Head M 64 3/- from parish Cannock Staffs
Lucy Bill daughter 20 Iron cleaner Birmingham
RG11 2806 78 35

It also seems that leonard Palmer is really John leonard palmer -but I think his birth was reg as just leonard - maybe they changed their mindsabout his name!!!!

now although I have yet to find the marriage of phillip Palmer and harriet -you seem pretty certain that harriet's maiden name was Bill - so could Sarah Bill the neighbour be harriet's mother???

It looks very much like she is

Hi Gaille- it looks like Phillip Palmer is going to be difficult - if you want to have a look around!!!!

Back in a mo

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline suzard

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Re: tracing James Palmer before it is too late-modified post
« Reply #38 on: Monday 09 February 09 01:23 GMT (UK) »
1871
68 Steelhouse lane Wolverhampton
Edward bill Head M 59 Edge tool maker Cannock Staffs
Sarah wife 52 Cannock Staffs
Edwin son 18 Striker Blacksmiths Birmingham
Clara dughter 16 galvanizer Birmingham
HARRIET daughter 13 domestic Birmingham
Lucy daughter 11 Birmingham
Rg10 2941 30 14

1861
osler St Birmingham
Edward Bill head M 49 Edge tool Maker Cannock Staffs
Sarah wife 46 cannock
Thomas son 22 edge tool striker
henry son 19 edge tool maker
Phillip son 17 edge tool striker
Alfred son 15 Edge tool striker
Elizabeth daughter 13
Selina (possibly should be celia?)daughter 10 Birmingham
Edwin son 8 Birminham
Ellen daughter 6 Birmingham
HARRIET daughter 3 Birmingham
Lucy daughter 3 mth Birmingham
RG9 2133 55 16

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline suzard

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Re: tracing James Palmer before it is too late-modified post
« Reply #39 on: Monday 09 February 09 01:32 GMT (UK) »
1851
????ield Square
Birmingham
Edward Bill head M 39 Edge tool maker
Sarah wife 32
Thmas son 12
Henery son 9
Phillip son 6
Alfred son 4
Eliabeth daughter 2
Seliah (should be Selinaor possibly celia?) 2mth Birmingham
all except selina b cannock Staffs
HO107 2051 321 28

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline suzard

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Re: tracing James Palmer before it is too late-modified post
« Reply #40 on: Monday 09 February 09 02:49 GMT (UK) »
Hope this doesn't confuse you too much -it did me for a while!!!

Now I hope you can follow my train of thought for Phillip Palmer - or whatever name he went under!!!!!!

Of course you really need to confirm  this  by purchasing some key certificates if you can

but I think it is a strong possibility this is how it was


I have previously posted the 1881 census showing Phillip Palmer married to harriet with 3 year old margaret and 6 mth old leonard

Well we are fairly certain leonard Palmer was baptised as such -but then was kown as John Palmer and used the name John Leonard palmer when he married -and after marriage.

It seems his sister margaret was baptised as Margaret kent -and then known as Margaret palmer.

It also seems when harriet married Phillip he was usiing the name of kent!!!!!! -but very soon afterwards changed it to palmer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not only that - but - Phillips father went by the name of patrick Kent -then changed it to patrick palmer -and then changed it to John Palmer!!!!!

This is so complicated -especially as you are new to research!!!! I hope you can follow it!!!!

We know where Phillip Palmer was in 1881 with wife harriet (nee Bill) and daughter margaret (reg as kent) and son leonard (who was John leonard)

this seems to be the marriage of Harriet and Phillip

Free BMD
Jun qtr 1877
Wolverhampton
on same page
Harriet bill
Phillip kent
6b 786

I think Phillip Kent and Phillip Palmer are the same person.

Im off to make a coffee before I post more

Suz

Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline suzard

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Re: tracing James Palmer before it is too late-modified post
« Reply #41 on: Monday 09 February 09 03:19 GMT (UK) »
this looks the strongest possibility for Phillip in 1871
Cheapside irmigham
Patrick Palmer head m 40 lab Tipperary ireland
margaret wife 40 Tipperary ireland
PHILLIP son 15 emginer Coventry Waricks
patrick son 13 Spring maker Coventry
William son 11 Bobbin maker
Thomas son 8 Birmingham
Julia daughter 6 Birmingham
Alice daughter 2
irmingham
Michael Moonary? Lodger U 18 lab Coventry
james brandon lodger 17 iron Founder Ireland
RG10 3107 16 28

all are using surname Palmer

1861
7 house 7 court High St Deritend
aston
birmingham
NOW USING THE NAME KENT!
Patrick kent Head M 30 Bricklayers lb ireland
margaret wife 28 ireland
PHILLIP son 4 Coventry Warwicks
Patrick son 3 Coventry
William son 1 coventry
Michael Killan Lodger M 28 Bricklayers lab Ireland
Bridget Killan lodger's wife 28 Ireland
John Killan lodgers son 3 Coventry
James Haney? Visitor U 18 Bricklayers lab Ireland
John Chanesey Visitor M 35 Bricklayers lab ireland
William Navy Visitor M 28 bricklayers lab Ireland
bridget navy visitors wife 29 Ireland
Ann navy visitors daughter 2 Coventry
RG9 2170 19 31

Hope you are following so far

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline suzard

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Re: tracing James Palmer before it is too late-modified post
« Reply #42 on: Monday 09 February 09 03:26 GMT (UK) »
Now coming forward to 1881

seems Patrick kent palmer is now calling himself John

1881
124 hospital St
Lodging house
all using the name palmer
John Palmer head M 45 Gen lab ireland
Margaret wife 45 Ireland
patrick son 22 Coventry
William son 21 Coventry
Thomas son 18 Birmingham
Julia daughter 16 Birmingham
Alice daughter 12 Birmingham
plus 6 lodgers -names and place of birth not known
RG11 2993 19 31

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline suzard

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Re: tracing James Palmer before it is too late-modified post
« Reply #43 on: Monday 09 February 09 03:50 GMT (UK) »
Just to recap
it seems james palmer was the son of harriet Bill and Phillip Palmer -who also used the name kent

Phillip's parents were Patrick and Margaret -kent-also used the name Palmer -and parick used the forename John

They were possibly irish Catholics 0as james gave his religion as catholic whenn he joined the armed forces.

There is a marriage freeBMD
Jun qtr 1854
Coventry
6d 504
2 of the names on the page are
Patrick kent
margaret Hickey

whether this is the marriage of Phillip's parents -I don't know

I think I'll leave it at that tonight

If any RootsChatters would like to take a look at this and give their opinions it would welcomed

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline kammy

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Re: tracing James Palmer before it is too late-modified post
« Reply #44 on: Monday 09 February 09 09:06 GMT (UK) »
Dear Suz
Thankyou for all your hard work and diligence.
You have given me so much information I hardly know where to start.
Can I ask a question?  Apparently James Palmer married a Kathleen Dunne about 1911?  first child (Margaret) born in 1912  we know they went to Ireland possibly Mullingar? and after a further 3/4 children he then married ( bigamously) a Dorothy Mayo(08.09.02 - 1975) in Manchester would the record of this marriage be deleted as it was discovered?  Again with the Mayo family there was a severing of ties so we don't even have her parents name so can't follow that one either....what a funny to do eh?
I can't work out if you ''strange beings'' do this as a job ? for love? or for pleasure? but whatever the reason ..well done you!!
hope you managed to get some sleep.
thankyou once again
kammy
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