Thomas LANG - 1864

[MGD4me]

I am looking for any information regarding my grand father, Thomas Lang. I believe his DOB was 16 Oct 1864, and may have been born 'Thomas Joseph'. He emmigrated to Canada most likely in 1884, and married Annie Rourke in 1884. The church marriage record only states that he was "of Edinburgh, Scotland". He died in Montreal, Quebec, in 1932, and the church record of his death states that his father's name was John Lang.

The 1881 Census (England) shows a John Lang (widower, 38), living in Northumberland (England), along with a Thomas (17), Janet (15), Robert (13), and Charles -8, but I don't know if this is 'him' or not, but the dates seem to match up. Unfortunately, I don't know who John Lang married.

What I'm hoping to nail down, is his actual town/city of birth, and possibly from there to get names and dates for his parents.

Thanks in advance...

[KirstyG]

Welcome to Rootschat! 

If you go to http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (pay per view site) you can access the official Scottish BMD records, also census data 1841-1901.

There you should be able to trace John Lang. If you can't find him with the exact birth date you have than you could narrow it down by finding the possible parents and tracing the families through the census records, ruling out any who are still in Scotland after your John had moved to Canada.

Interestingly he seems to have given the birth date you have (16th Oct 1863)  on the 1901 census in Montreal , but in the 1911 he gives his birth as Oct 1861?
http://automatedgenealogy.com/

I was rather hoping he might have had some family staying who had come from Scotland, but it looks like only his sister-in-law?

If you get John's birth certificate I think at that point they were recording the parents date and place of marriage on them, which makes life easier.

You may need to try searching for Laing as an alternate spelling.

Kirsty

[MGD4me]

First, thanks for the quick reply!

I guess I should have mentioned in my first post that I have a subscription to Ancestry.ca and I have also researched the 1901 and 1911 Canada Census.

As to his DOB, the 1901 Census shows '1863', but his age at 37. Given that the Census was taken at the end of March, and would later turn 38 in October, then his birth year should have been shown as 1864. The census taker was to log a person's actual age, on the date of enumeration. So, at least I'm happy with the 1901 Census.

As for the 1911 Census, well, what can I say? His age is incorrectly shown as 49 instead of 47. The censuswas taken in Montreal, which is a mixed English/French city, and if the census taker were French (likely), there may have been a language issue. If I only go by the names, including the siblings, everything matches except for possible DOB discrepancies, but I've dismissed these as simply mis-communications. I'm certain these are a match.

My apologies for not stating more details about Thomas' Canadian history, but my interest lies more in his roots. Strange, but other older members of my family who have long passed, seemed to believe that my Great grand father (Thomas' father) was also named 'Thomas'. It was only after I found a church record of when my grand father Thomas died in Montreal, that the confusion began. It reads "Thomas Rotchford Lang, of the City of Montreal, son of the late John Lang of Edinburgh, Scotland, died on the twentieth of July, 1932". Witnesses were James Lang (his son - my uncle), and Fred Ross, his son-in-law. Yet, when Thomas married Annie Rourke in 1886 (Rawdon, Quebec), his name was recorded as 'Thomas Joseph'. No one seems to know where the 'Rotchford' (or, Rochford) portion of the name originated, but several of Thomas and Annie's children included a 'Rotchford as a middle name. I'm still working on that part of the puzzle as well.

I also have been taking advantage of 'Scotlands People', and paying-as-I-go. I keep paying, but I'm not making any real headway. And yes, it is very possible or likely that 'Lang' was spelled 'Laing' somewhere along the way, and I haven't ruled that out. While I have visited Scotland once, my knowledge of the various counties leaves a lot to be desired. But I'm learning as I go along. Is it possible for one to state 'for the record' (Marriage / Immigration, etc) that one is 'from Edinburgh ' for simplification, yet be from 'outside Edinburgh' in a totally different county/district? Perhaps this is why the trail goes cold.

There is an index of the 1841 Scotland Census that point to a John Lang in Lanarkshire, born abt 1838, but if I 'pay my money', I don't seem to able to find that particular John Lang. I'm usually very good at puzzles, but this is just weird.

My former family members also thought  my GGF (who they believed was also named Thomas) married a Catherine Connors, but this lead goes totally nowhere, but I thought I'd just throw that out there, who knows.

Thanks again!

[KirstyG]

Census entries should always be taken witha  pinch of salt in my experience!

It is true that for ease a lot of people from outside Edinburgh can just say the name of the nearest city to simplify matters when talking to people who don't know Scotland. Whether they would do that on official documentation depends on the person.

A useful guide to districts and other handy stuff:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/

I don't know if you are aware of this site?
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/ScotlandMiddleNamesIGI.htm

A very useful site where you can search for entries in the IGI that have a middle name that is unusual or could have been a surname, as these can be passed through families it can be a good way of tracking possible relatives.
Might be worth a look for your "Rotchford/Rochford" connection.

You should be aware that the 1841 Scottish census does not cover every single person in Scotland!
There are some notable holes, I know Fife has a few missing/empty books. Scotlands People has a list of the missing enumeration districts. It is annoying but doesn't mean your man wasn't there. Transcription errors are also a common problem...

[MGD4me]

Kristy,

Thanks so much for the ongoing tips and links.

I have just gone through most of them, and while I have found some new and very interesting links, I haven't found what I'm looking for yet. I'm still hopeful that one day something will surface, though.

Right now, I have about another two months remaining with my 'Canada-only' subscription to Ancestry.ca, and when that gets close to expiring then I will look at adding further relevant subscriptions that might help me further. I've already purchased a number of blocks of credit at 'ScotlandsPeople" without much success, but I've printed off everything that could think of, just in case I'm missing the obvious. So, for now, I'll give it a rest until my current Canadian subscription expires. In the meantime, perhaps I can uncover information on other LANGs that could be linked to my ancestors, and provide further clues.

Cheers,

Norm Lang

[MonicaL]

Hi Norm

Re that 1881 family in Northumberland. From IGI, I think wife's name was Elizabeth Legget. In 1861 Roxburgh census, John shows as a blacksmith as he does in 1881. Children showing to them seem to match what you found in that 1881 entry - all birth sadly in Roxburg:

1. JANET LANG Birth: 26 MAY 1861 - likely first born Janet died and name re-used in 1865
2. THOMAS HOGG LANG  Birth: 29 MAY 1863
3. JANET LANG Birth: 22 JUN 1865
4. ROBERT LANG Birth: 16 NOV 1867

Monica

[MGD4me]

Hi Monica,

I really appreciate the information! Thank you.

A few details do not appear to match what I would expect, however. There is no mention of a 'Charles' (8 years old), as there was in the 1881 Census. Second, as far as I know from other records, my grand father was born Oct 16th, 1864, and there was no 'Hogg' as a middle name, hyphenated last name.

But, that is just my first reaction. I will certainly do more digging and see if this leads somewhere. Again, thanks.

Norm

[MonicaL]

The birth of  the Charles who shows aged 8 in the English 1881 census, doesn't show on IGI. Scottish Statutory births and marriage extracts are very good on IGI for the period immediately after the start of official registration in Scotland from 1855 up until 1874/5 with the LDS stopped loading this data on. Not so good on the English records on IGI, but I would imagine his birth will appear on the English birth indexes.

In the 1861 census:

John Laing 26, blacksmith, b. Stitchel, Berwickshire
Elizabeth Laing 23, b. Edinburgh
John Laing 2, son b. Roxburgh

Address: Boathouse, Roxburgh, Roxburghshire

Elizabeth's birth place is the only reference I can see at this stage to Edinburgh/Midlothian region...but it's a start!

Monica

[MonicaL]

At a guess, this entry on IGI could be Elizabeth's birth:

ELIZABETH LEGGAT  Birth: 15 JAN 1838  Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh
Parents:ROBERT LEGGAT and JANET HOGG

The mother's name explains the Hogg middle name for the 1863 Thomas and the repeated naming of daughters as Janet in memory of Elizabeth's mother.


Norm, I am not saying this is your Thomas. Simply trying to give you likely background info on the family in Northumberland in 1881 who you thought may his.

Monica