a strange case of a girl too young to be married

[JAP]

Hi Joyce,

I am wondering why you are puzzling about the Mary Ann CASEY b 1870?

Apart from her age, she surely can't be relevant.

In 1881, that Mary A. CASEY is a Scholar aged 9 and is living at home with her parents.

In the same census, 1881, Mary Ann, aged 26, wife of John HART/HOLDING, is living with John and has two children - Jessie 3 and William 1.

Mary Ann, wife of John HART, is consistently recorded (including the birthplace of Poulton-le-Fylde):
1881 26
1891 31 (I think this might be 36)
1901 46
And you say that, in 1911 Mary Ann's age is again consistent, and that both John & Mary Ann say they have been married 35 years.

This strongly suggests that it is not a case of a second marriage (to a younger Mary Ann).
And, as you say, the 35 years fits with the marriage of John HART, Dec quarter 1875, Wigan with a Mary Ann ATHERTON on the same page.

Do you have this marriage certificate?  If not, perhaps it might throw some light on the situation.

You say you have a birth certificate for one of the children of John & Mary Ann, and that it shows the mother's m.s. as CASEY.  Which child is that, please?

Best of luck,

JAP

[JAP]

Hi again Joyce,

I've been thinking that perhaps Mary Ann wasn't born in Poulton le Fylde but grew up there - and so she always assumed that it was her birthplace?

The following is probably a complete red herring but I'll throw it into the mix.
I searched for CASEY in Fylde.
And came across the following in 1861 ...

Mary CASEY, Granddaughter, age 2 (i.e. ca 1859), born Isle of Man, in the household of John MCMANUS, 70, b Ireland, Lodging House Keeper, Church St, Poulton le Fylde.

Ellen CASEY, Widow, 55 b Ireland, Servant, a Lodger in the household of Nancy MCMANUS, Widow, 75, b Ireland, a Common Lodging House Keeper, Church St, Poulton le Fylde.

JAP 

[diavalos]

Thanks for that.
Strangely enough on the 1891 census there is a David Miller b Isle of Man living with the Harts he is a nephew, I will have to delve a little further into this. I have a birth certificate for Mary Elizabeth Hart who is my husband's grandmother,
 I still think i have the right family but maybe i am being blinkered, and as they are quite an interesting lot, it probably  suits me. but i will fefinately have a look at the McManus connection.
Joyce
 

[JAP]

Hi again Joyce,

...
Strangely enough on the 1891 census there is a David Miller b Isle of Man living with the Harts he is a nephew, I will have to delve a little further into this. ... 

Joyce, I did notice 2yo David MILLER with the HARTs in 1891 and wondered if that might give some sort of lead - but stupidly I didn't twig his Isle of Man birthplace!

...

I still think i have the right family ... 

Joyce, I'm not sure what you mean by this 
Mary Ann CASEY b 1870 is surely right out of the picture unless you have some other reason for still being interested in her???  Though I can't think what it could be.

Incidentally, the name Mary Ann ATHERTON is also interesting.  If I recall correctly(I didn't!) from looking up censuses earlier today, there's a girl of that name in Fylde - they were in Kersley - recorded as daughter of Charles FILDES who has wife Martha.  And Mary Ann's dob is ca 1855 which is well and truly before the marriage of Charles FILDES and Martha ATHERTON in 1864 (see FreeBMD); this 16yo Mary Ann, despite being a Nurse, is recorded as Near Blind from Measles.

Mary CASEY's grandfather John MCMANUS is probably the John MCMANUS who died in Fylde in 1865.
But where is this Mary CASEY in 1871.

On we go ...

JAP
Note: later edit is in red

[haselbury]

Hi all,
I just thought I would add this to your information.
Actually in England it was legal for a girl of 14 years to be married, but a boy had to be at least 16 and prove he could look after a wife.
haselbury

[JAP]

Hi all,
I just thought I would add this to your information.
Actually in England it was legal for a girl of 14 years to be married, but a boy had to be at least 16 and prove he could look after a wife.
haselbury

haselbury,
Age for legal marriage in England has changed over time.
So it is always useful to specify precisely what time period in England you are referring to - and to cite sources if possible.
JAP
PS: Just to add a comment for interest - ages in Scotland were another matter altogether and there are still differences between English Law and Scots Law.

[haselbury]

Hi,
I am sorry I was not more Technical in my last post. But the laws in England and Wales were quite plain when it came too.
Age of Concent in England and Wales:
The age of consent for heterosexual acts in England was set at 12 in 1275 and remained so for six centuries - due to the wording of the law, the age of consent only applied to women (consequently, all amendments to the law also only applied to women). The wording was along the lines of "It shall be deemed illegal to ravage a maiden who is not of age" - at the time "of age" being 12. Therefore, there was, and is, technically no age of consent for the male participant
- unless the female participant is an adult in which case laws pertaining to sex with a minor and so on come into force. The English law became applicable in Wales following the Acts of Union (1536 and 1543). In medieval Welsh law there was no actual equivalent of the concept of the age of consent as such, but a girl was marriagable at 12-14 (the onset of puberty) and a fine was payable for the taking of a girl's maidenhood by force; the rules varied according to status and may not have been applied rigidly to commoners

A concern that young girls were being sold into brothels led Parliament to raise the age of consent to 13 in 1875 under the Offences Against the Person Act 1875. After W. T. Stead's Maiden Tribute articles, the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885 raised the age of consent to 16.

Male-male homosexual activity had been illegal since the Buggery Act 1533 and this was reinforced in the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 and the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885 extended buggery laws to include any kind of sexual activity between males. It is common folklore that an amendment that would have criminalised lesbian acts was rejected by Queen Victoria because she refused to believe that some women did such things; but it is likelier that those presenting the amendment excluded it (as did the House of Lords 40 years later) on the assumption that it would give women ideas.]

Male homosexual acts were decriminalised under the Sexual Offences Act 1967, Section 1, although the age of consent for such acts was set at 21, whereas the age of consent for heterosexual acts was 16. However, the legislation applied only in England and Wales.
haselbury

[JAP]

Thanks haselbury,

Much clearer.

And showing changes over time.

Best regards,

JAP

[diavalos]

Hi Haselbury