Author Topic: Crest info. - BLAND  (Read 9043 times)

Offline Pete36

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Crest info. - BLAND
« on: Monday 14 February 05 17:57 GMT (UK) »
Hi all,
I've read pretty much all the crest posts but still not found what I wondered. (Am also currently google-eyed from looking at them all!)

When I see my Bland family crest,  what does this signify?
At some point, I take it  somebody has 'invented ' one, or when a coat of arms was invented, the crest was also made? 
Will there be only one crest for the name?

Just curious as I've never seen it before.

Pete  :)
Kennedy - Waterford, Ireland

Offline Pollynation

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Re: Crest info.
« Reply #1 on: Monday 14 February 05 21:05 GMT (UK) »
The crest i have was taken from " burke's general armoury" compiled by Sir Bernard Burke , Ulster king of arms to the queen (1842).
i presume he compiled a list of known family crest at that time?
I have seen slight different ones, but the main "shield" remains the same.
There also is slight variations depending on english/irish etc.

This is only what i have found so far and i am by no means an expert on family crests.

Best wishes
Pauline
Atkinson/Mountney/Gardner/Mellor/Finch/Higham-Lancashire
Cooper/Price-Shropshire
Lund/Foster/Wilkinson/Crawforth-Yorkshire
Calvert-Durham


Whoever said seek and ye shall find was NOT a genealogist.

Offline suttontrust

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Re: Crest info.
« Reply #2 on: Monday 14 February 05 21:37 GMT (UK) »
A crest was awarded to a particular person and his descendants.  It doesn't mean that everyone with that surname is entitled to use that crest.  As we use them now, it's just a bit of fun - not to be taken seriously.
Godden in East Sussex, mainly Hastings area.
Richards in Lea, Gloucestershire, then London.
Williamson in Leith, Vickers in Nottingham.
Webb in Bildeston and Colchester.
Wesbroom in Kirby le Soken.
Ellington in Harwich.
Park, Palmer, Segar and Peartree in Kersey.

Offline deadants

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Re: Crest info.
« Reply #3 on: Monday 14 February 05 21:45 GMT (UK) »
Have a look at this site, It has a good explanation on how coats of arms originate.
http://www.crests.com/

deadants
Cleary, Doran, Boland, McCooey, McManus, O'brien, Martin, Savage, Wallis, McCollister, Wood.  (More to come soon)


Offline dave the tyke

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Re: Crest info.
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 20 September 05 15:57 BST (UK) »
The 3 symbols represent arrowheads. My memory is failing but I think the Arms were given to a Bland of Kippax (Leeds). The Dalesman of Christmas 1961 give a good account of the origins of the Blands on Howgill fells and the place named Bland north of Sedbergh.
The name Bland signifies a wild and windswept place.
regards
Dave Bland
Bland, Greenwood Bland, Ellis, Benn, Woodhead, Priestley, Illingworth, Lightowler, Platts, Boys, Bradley, O'Hara, Hall<br /><br />Areas -  North Bierley, Northowram, West Bowling, Horton, Shelf, Allerton, Queensbury, Haworth, Ovenden, Halifax, Luddenden, Midgley, Elland, Littleborough

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Little Nell

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Re: Crest info.
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 20 September 05 22:40 BST (UK) »
If I may clarify something here - what you see at the side of Pollynation's posts is a Coat of Arms, not a crest.  The crest is the knight's helm, the mantling and whatever may be sitting on top of the helmet.  A Coat of Arms consists of the shield, the supporters (if any) and the crest.  They were granted to a person and could be inherited by the heir to the title.  If the person had several sons, the coat of arms could be changed slightly by those sons, but they would not inherit the original arms, only the eldest son.  The whole subject is fascinating and a full explanation shoud be obtained from a reference book. e.g Boutell's Heraldry - it's quite thick!  Shields changed with marriage to an heiress for example and each coat of arms can tell its own story.  In days gone by, people could be taken to court for using a coat of arms to which they were not entitled.  I believe the situation is much more strict in Scotland - the Lord Lyon King of Arms will still take people to court.

Nell
All census information: Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline behindthefrogs

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Re: Crest info.
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 20 September 05 23:12 BST (UK) »
The crest on a coat of arms is often more meaningful than the shield.  It is usually preserved through out a family and can often be traced back a very long way.  For example a swans head and neck as a crest usually shows descent from the Count of Boulogne and goes back to the Norman Conquest.

The helm or helmet strictly shows the rank of the person and Dukes, Knights and gentlemen for example have different helms but with minor variations over the centuries every person of the same rank has the same helm.

The shield passes from father to eldest son but may be divided on marriage with a high ranking family to incorporate the wife's shield.  Where the son has a rank before the death of his father then he will often use the same shield with standard minor additions to show the relationship.  Descendents other than the eldest son apply for variations to the college of arms.  The royal family of course break all the rules which everyone else is supposed to follow.

Using a coat of arms to which you are not entitled may be a "bit of fun" but if the rightful owner of those arms decides to object it can all get a bit nasty.

David   
Living in Berkshire from Northampton & Milton Keynes
DETAILS OF MY NAMES ARE IN SURNAME INTERESTS, LINK AT FOOT OF PAGE
Wilson, Higgs, Buswell, PARCELL, Matthews, TAMKIN, Seckington, Pates, Coupland, Webb, Arthur, MAYNARD, Caves, Norman, Winch, Culverhouse, Drakeley.
Johnson, Routledge, SHIRT, SAICH, Mills, SAUNDERS, EDLIN, Perry, Vickers, Pakeman, Griffiths, Marston, Turner, Child, Sheen, Gray, Woolhouse, Stevens, Batchelor
Census Info is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline BlandTree

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Re: Crest info.
« Reply #7 on: Friday 30 September 05 12:06 BST (UK) »
Thanks, Paul, for drawing my attention to this thread.  I hope no one will think me patronising if I try to explain everything from the beginning, but I shall have to post it in two parts as it is more than these allowed number of characters!

Part 1

Before I deal with Bland, may I establish a few facts?  A shield is always blazoned [described] in a certain order.  First the background colour, called the field followed by any charges [pictorial representations].  Then the ‘ordinaries’, which are some basic shapes placed on the field.  In our case we have a ‘bend’, which is a wide diagonal stripe from the top right corner of the shield [from the point of view of the man holding the shield], to the bottom left.  If the bend slopes from the top left [latin: sinister] corner it is called a bend sinister and may [but not always] indicate bastardy.  Any charges placed on the ‘ordinary’ are next described.  There are five main colours [tinctures], sable , gules , vert , azure and, rarely used because of its royal connections, purpure [purple], and two metals, argent [silver but often shown as white] and or [gold but often shown as yellow].  There are other colours, as we shall find on our crest.  For clarity, tinctures should not be placed on or adjacent to tinctures or metals on or adjacent to metals.  The blazoning is given as a type of shorthand, to take up as little room as possible.  

So, the ancient arms of Bland are blazoned thus:  Argent, on a bend, three pheons, or.  Short and to the point!  The field [background colour], is silver [or white], the bend is black and on it are three gold broad arrowheads.  These arms are given in the College of Arms. C.24. Volume 1. Page 148 b Grants of Arms page 31.  I have no idea how to access this but no doubt some member of RootsChat will!  

So, those are the ancient arms of Bland of Sedburgh.  Dave the Tyke is correct in stating that this family originated in a wild and windswept place called Blandsgill below the Howgills.  If you go there you will see a lovely cottage called Bland’s Cottage at the foot of Chapel Beck and a little church nearby filled with entries from Blands in the visitors’ book!  I have photos of these buildings somewhere.  Needless to say, neither building is as old as the family origins.

This ancient line died out quickly and a younger branch, which moved to Leeming  inherited.  Their arms had to be ‘differenced’ to avoid confusion with those of the elder [now extinct] branch.  So the arms of Bland of Leeming and, later, Kippax Park, are blazoned thus:  Argent, on a bend, sable, three pheons, of the field.  You will note that the only difference is that the arrowheads are now ‘of the field’, in other words silver [NOT gold].  Bland of Leeming also has a crest blazoned: Out of a Ducal coronet, or, a lions’ head, tanné.  So, poking out above a golden Ducal coronet there is a tawny [tanné] lions head facing to the left as we look at it.  This description is in the College of Arms, C.40. And is confirmed in the Visitation of Yorkshire in 1666 [the year my house was built!], The Visitation of Yorkshire in 1584 & 85 by Robert Glover and in Warburton’s Arms of Yorkshire Families in 1638.  So these arms date back at least to the reign of Elizabeth 1st  [1585].

There are other Bland coats of arms.  For example Bland of Halifax: Quarterly, argent and or, on a bend sable, three pheons of the second.  Crest - On a wreath of the colours, out of a crown vallary, or, a lion’s head, proper, charged with a bend sable, thereon three pheons as in the arms.  Motto - Potior Origine Virtus.  Note the unusual quartering of two metals.  Bland of Halifax was not entitled to a Ducal coronet.  ‘Proper’ means coloured with its proper colour, which won’t be very different from tanné [tawny] will it!  

Adkins, Alford, Alfred, Allford, Armitt, Atkins, Atkinson, Berry, Blackberry. Blackbury, BLAND, Boaden, Boardman, Bowden, Carpenter, Lister, Malsbury, Mason, McAra, Mawle, Mery, Mold, Newth, Pargitter, Park, Pritchard, Quiney, Quinney, Rawlinson, Rollinson, Rowlinson, Rowledge, Sprute, Stuart, Sugden, Tyler

Offline BlandTree

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Re: Crest info.
« Reply #8 on: Friday 30 September 05 12:07 BST (UK) »
Part 2.

The motto brings me to another topic.  As well as differencing arms, different Bland families adopted different mottoes.  Here is a list of those I know of:
Bland of Kippax Park:  Sperate at Virite Fortes.  Hope and live boldly.
Bland of Copdock:  Potior Origine Virtus.  Virtue is better than lineage.
Bland of Debden, Essex:  Fortiter et Sauviter.  Boldly and mildly.
Bland-Sutton Bart.:  Spes et Audax.  Hope and daring.
I don’t know which branch these belong to: Eloquentia Sagitta. Eloquence [is my] arrow.
Quo Fata Vocant.  Whither the fates call [us].

I am going to call my Bland history, when I write it, “Called by Fate” as I have encountered so many amazing co-incidences on my research.

As for entitlement to bear arms, you need to prove this to the College of Arms but nowadays many of us simply use a coat of arms as a bit of fun.  While it is true that the real owners of these coats of arms can, and may, object, you will see key rings, coasters, tankards, scrolls and so on with coats of arms on and I have not heard of any serious objection to these commercially available infringements of heraldic laws … yet!  Having said that, I would draw your attention to a letter I received from David E Bland, dated January 1990,  [from Nottingham and with whom I have lost touch], who knows far more about this subject than I ever will.  He wrote “Michael Bland, whose present day descendants live in Suffolk, are the only family that I know of who are entitled to use the ancient coat of arms but their ancestry could only be traced back to 1679.  The College of Arms could find no actual evidence that they had a right to the arms but granted them because of their family tradition.”  I should add that David considers the arms I have described as those of Bland of Halifax to be the ancient coat of arms.  These, however, are not the arms usually portrayed.

So there you are!  It only remains for me to say that I have a copy of Nicholas Carlisle’s book, “A History of the Ancient Family of Bland” which was written in 1828.  If you live in England you can ask your local library to obtain a copy for you to look at.  I know that there is a copy in the John Rylands Library in Manchester University.  I borrowed that one when I was working in Scarborough.  I would be happy to do look ups but you must know the geographical area of your Bland ancestors before, 1828, and they must have been posh Blands; Carlisle did not bother with peasants!  You may like to know, with all the Trafalgar celebrations about to take place, that Horatio Nelson’s granny was a Bland, though Carlisle missed that gem!!

Hope this has helped

Malcolm Bland
Adkins, Alford, Alfred, Allford, Armitt, Atkins, Atkinson, Berry, Blackberry. Blackbury, BLAND, Boaden, Boardman, Bowden, Carpenter, Lister, Malsbury, Mason, McAra, Mawle, Mery, Mold, Newth, Pargitter, Park, Pritchard, Quiney, Quinney, Rawlinson, Rollinson, Rowlinson, Rowledge, Sprute, Stuart, Sugden, Tyler