1841/51 Look-up please BLAKE Trevanson

[andy_smed]

Charles Blake was born in Trevanson approx 1780-1800 he married Charlotte Moxley from Chepstow area and they had two children before she died in 1836. Child 1 was Alfred Blake born 1834. Child 2 we do not know the name of but was born in 1836. Child 1 Alfred Blake who was born in trevanson later married Grace from Kilhampton, unsure of her surname.

Would like to try to find Charles Blake's family in trevanson, would love to know the name of Alfred Blakes brother and would like to know if possible the surname of Grace.

Cheers Andy Smith

[fizzybubble]

Lots of Blakes in Trevanson in 1841 but not the ones you are after.

Also did a general sweep of Cornwall for 1841. 402 Blakes but no Alfreds.

Fizzy

[zorromilan]

Hello Andy

I'm very eager for you to contact me.  I'm related to the Blake family - Alfred's brother, Richard, by Charles's second wife, is my Great, Great Grandfather.  Please reply as soon as possible.

Thanks,
Martyn Blake (Cardiff)

[krisesjoint]

Hi Martyn,

A Big Welcome to RootsChat and the Cornwall Board 

While we wait for Andy is there anything we can help you with?

I wonder how far Andy has progressed with this. I see we did not get far at the time, but this was nearly 4 years ago. I see that the reason we could not spot Alfred back then is that he was in Wales in 1841 with Elizabeth Moxley.

HO107/746/12 Folio 8 Page 13
Hamlet of Portcafsegg
St Arvans
Monmouthshire

MOXLEY Elizabeth 75 N (No not born in County) Farmer
BLAKE Alfred M 6 N
LEWIS Mary A Servant 20 Y FS

1851 I see him in Devon with Dad and Martyn's GGGrandfather Richard.

HO107/1895 Folio 471 Page 19
Bucks Down
Woolfardisworthy

BLAKE Chas Head 52 Widow b St Winnow farmer 90 acres 2 lab
BLAKE Alfred M Son 16 b St Breock
BLAKE Richard 7 b Clovelly
HAMBLYN Sally Servant 48 Unm b Clovelly House Servant
VENNING Isabella Servant 17 unm b Woolfardisworthy Assistant
HOCKRIDGE Joseph Servant 11 b Clovelly on farm

1861 married and in Wales.

He married Grace YEO Sep 1857 in Bideford Devon 5b 791.

Grace was the daughter of Philip YEO and Mary HOBBS who married in Holsworthy Devon 28 Nov 1823.

Philip YEO was baptised Morwenstow Cornwall 11 Feb 1799 the son of William and Elizabeth.

William YEO = Elizabeth COKE 1 Apr 1791 Kilkhampton

Charles BLAKE was baptised St Winnow 4 Jun 1797 the son of James and Mary

Nothing obvious there. There is a James Roskilly BLAKE bap St Blazey 11 Jan 1795 so wondered and do find

James BLAKE = Mary ROSKILLY St Veep 9 Jan  1783

I wondered if these may have been his parents but if the age at death is correct she appears a bit old to have had a child in 1797 

James BLAKE buried St Breock 19 Sep 1823 aged 75 Years
Mary BLAKE Buried St Breock 15 Sep 1818 aged 73 Years

I do not see a baptism for Alfred, nor a burial for Charlotte, nor for that matter the marriage. I thought I may have found the 1836 sibling by her name but no she is not (Charlotte Moxley BLAKE) bap 24 Oct 1836 St Ervan Bible Christian (Parents Peter BLAKE and Fanny nee DOCKING of St Breock - was at preaching house Trevanson so probably connected. I also noticed one of the Bible Christian Ministers was a Charles Blake.

Anyway lovely you have a connection. All the Best.

Cheers Kris 

[zorromilan]

Hi Kris,

That is very impressive - gathering so much information in such short time - I guess if you know where to look....
Anyway, much of what you have written I am aware of, and thinking along the same lines.  I have the marriage certificate for Alfred and Grace, dated 10/07/1867.  I'm not sure if there would be a Baptism record for Alfred because of the Bible Christian aspect, perhaps?
I've found the grave of Charlotte Blake at St Arvans, near Chepstow, Wales.  I'm waiting to hear from the vicar there re the records.
I understand that there was a child born in 1830, sex unknown, that died.  Then Alfred was born and later another unknown child, shortly after which Charlotte died.  I do not know if the 2nd unknown child survived.  Charles then wrote Charlotte's memoirs, privately published apparently.  I think that Andy has access to those memoirs, and that's what I'm after at the present time.

Further to this, I have a copy of Charles's second marriage, to Elizabeth Ching on 14/08/1841.  His father's name was James, as you rightly say, a Yeoman.  I've seen that document that shows his mother to be Mary, again possibly that Roskilly name.  However, from other clips that I've seen, they appear to have had the following children - Henry, who possibly married into the Werry family, then Charles, Ann and possibly another brother, although his name has not been mentioned anywhere that I've seen.  I see what you mean about the age of Mary, though.  Elsewhere, I've seen mention of James's parents being a John and Alice Blake. 

It's all very confusing, but completely addictive.  So much so that myself, wife, brother and his wife will probably go to North Devon (Bideford) and Cornwall (St Breock) to see if we can get any further.  If you've any ideas, I'd be grateful for any help.  I hope that Andy comes back on soon - the last time was in September.

Cheers,
Martyn

[krisesjoint]

Hi Martyn,

Yes I saw Andy was last with us in Sep so hopefully he will get notification of a reply. I checked when I saw how old the thread was. If he hadn't been about since this thread I would not be as hopeful. People change their email addresses etc.

LOL - I had picked Elizabeth CHING as the likely second wife since I did not see any likely deaths in Bideford district for the other possible wives that appear in the marriage entry.

You do know that Charles was definitely a Bible Christian Martyn? Certainly no record for any Christenings to this couple in Cornwall. Curious about the connection to that baptism I did find. Surely there is a connection there for this child to be named Charlotte Moxley Blake and the baptism to have taken place at Trevarton. If they were Bible Christians living in Trevarton/St Breock one would think there should be some baptisms there but there are not. I also tried the nonconformist registers online and see if there may have been something showing outside of Cornwall, but alas nothing there either.

That explains why I couldn't find Charlotte's burial - it is in Wales. I wonder if the baptisms were also in Wales.

Ohh the memoirs should shed some light if Andy has them. He probably has all or most of the information I posted by now I suspect and maybe much more. With Charles giving a pob as St Winnow - that baptism is perfect. Perhaps that is just not the correct death. Blake was rather common in the area. There was Mary ROSKILLY Baptised St Veep 6 May 1764 to John and Ann which would fit the marriage date and support the 1797 birth. No death to 1837 and the oldest I can spot in the area in 1841 is aged 65 so too young.

Hopefully Andy will check in soon. He should be very pleased you have found him..............Kris 

[krisesjoint]

Aha that IS NOT Mary's Burial 

Charles and Peter are brothers. He named his daughter after his brothers wife. The year was 1836 - perhaps Charlotte had just died.

BLAKE Peter was baptised 4 Mar 1804 St Breock parents James and Mary.

Charlotte's baptism lists Peter as a lab of St Breock and Fanny as the daughter of William and Fanny DOCKING. Charlotte was born 21 Aug 1836. How does that fit with Charlottes death?

Peter BLAKE = Frances DOCKING  30 July 1831 St Minver

Cheers Kris 

[zorromilan]

Hi again Kris,

Thank you for your latest reply.  It does all make sense.  However, please don't be offended by this - I followed someone's line of thinking and came unstuck - hence why we're chatting now - I'd gone down the Henry Blake route.  This is my point - you say  that it is NOT Mary's burial, that he named his daughter after his brother's wife.  Do you actually know those things or is it logical thinking on your part?  In other words, can it be proved?!  I think you are right on both counts - but is it something that you've seen?  I'm not being funny about it - just inquisitive!!

I do have the Marriage Certificate for Richard Blake, born at Clovelly, whose father is shown as Charles Blake, both shown on the 1851 England census, together with Alfred Moxley Blake.  Charles is shown as a Dissenting Minister on the certificate.  The reason I started all this was to find out where my middle name, Ashton, originated.  I now know that Elizabeth Ching was Elizabeth Ashton.  That name has been carried on through Richard's family, down to my son.  My dad did tell me once that a relative had set up some sort of church - I guess that's Charles.

I've just got a few queries left - if you can help or point me in the right direction I'd be very grateful.  These are the queries:

Charles and Charlotte allegedly had three children - one in 1830 that died, Alfred Moxley Blake, who can be traced, and another that either died or survived, but possibly resulted in the death of Charlotte Blake in 1836.  How do I research the missing children?

Charles then married Elizabeth Ching, resulting in Richard Blake.  How can I further research her family?

How do I go about finding details of James and Mary Blake, John and Ann Blake and going further back than that?  Is it a case of going to the Cornwall Record Office, armed with as many details as possible, and someone there will assist me if I have any questions? (I realise that prior appointments have to be made)

I'm sorry I've gone on a bit, but you obviously know your stuff, which could help me.  Hope you don't mind!?

Cheers,
Martyn

[krisesjoint]

Hi Martyn,

I am convinced that is not your Mary's burial due to her age. Mary Roskilly was baptised in 1864 so the age does not fit.

Ann Roskilly BLAKE was baptised 29 May 1810 St Breock parents James and Mary, so there is another one.

She is now 46, a good span of births from 1783 marriage so fits nicely, since she married young. I expect there will be others, particularly in the earlier years of her marriage. Take a good look at records from parishes you know they were in, starting with St Veep, St Blazey, St Winnow and St Breock. I expect you will find many more. We have the one I found earlier for James Roskilly BLAKE in St Blazey so they certainly got about.

There is no way that burial fits with this therefore I do not think it is your Mary.

Blake is certainly not uncommon in the area. The full burial entry MAY list her as wife of or may list a residence. By viewing that you will also see if the age is correct. You will be able to view that record at the records office. I am in Australia and have never visited the records office but whatever records you wish to view I am sure they will find for you to view yourself. I doubt they would do it for you unless you pay them to research for you.

There are no baptisms for Charles's Children listed in Cornwall. As he travelled a lot as a minister, although Alfred was born in Cornwall he does not appear to have been baptised there. I would be inclined to look closer in Wales. Charlotte died in Wales possibly childbirth related so that is where I would expect those records will be. There are no baptisms nor burials listed in Cornwall so I really think you need to look elsewhere. There is a James Moxley connected with the Bible Christians and Charles in St Arvans. I am guessing her family were also Bible Christians and that is how they met. That is where I would be looking.  Charlotte is buried there. If her baby was buried with her those records should be there. Perhaps her other children were baptised there in her home parish. You should first try for Bible Christian Records in that area.

As to Peter - he was the son of James and Mary, noone can tell you for sure it was your James and Mary - 1804 baptisms do not list anything further re res or occ. You are aware there is another son. To my mind this is him. He named his daughter Charlotte Moxley Blake in the Bible Christian Preaching House at Trevanson. Nothing is certain, but this seems pretty concusive to me that this is the missing son. At CRO see if James left a will. Nothing listed on their site.

Elizabeth Ching, marriage certificate should list her fathers name and occ and possibly age. If not, her death cert will list her age. Hopefully armed with that you will be able to research her family.

Cheers Kris