Cameron/Levy/Marks - birth Query

[suzyvan]

Hi Lozzab,
Could this be your family?

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 > Victoria > 1931 > Batman > Northcote
Ernest Cameron 43 Ballantyne St [job  Sales]
Adela Cameron 43 Ballantyne St  [home duties]

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936 > Victoria > 1936 > Batman > Northcote
Ernest Cameron 43 Ballantyne St [job  Sales]
Adela Cameron 43 Ballantyne St  [home duties]

Lu will crack this one she is a very generous and diligent researcher!

Cheers Suzy

[Lucy2]

Hi Suzy   

Great work !

[      Trying my best  ... but this one has got me well and truly stumped !  ]

The best chance of finding Ernest's roots, is (I believe), through a connection to the name "COULDREY".    I did a bit more searching, seems now this name might be English (rather than Scottish) ?    Ernest obviously had some attachment to, or some pride in this name,  to have passed it on to his son ?

Lu

[lozzab]

Hi Lu and Suzy,
Yes that is them in Ballantyne st on the Electoral Roll. I found them at Ancestry.  I have their death certificates and it appears they went from NZ and settled in Sydney and then Ernest and Adela came to Victoria in about 1923.  Their son Jack married Lorna Marion Wheeler in 1929 and they can be found on the NSW Electoral roll  in 1930 but then have  come to Victoria and are found on the Victorian Electoral Roll in 1931.

I have just received the "Birth" Certicate of Jack Ernest from NZ - not happy !!
It came with a letter saying they are "unable to issue the printout in the original jhandwritten format as legislation has been passed since the time of the record being registered, which prohibits certain information being stated"

The only thing on the printout that I didn't know is that the birth took place at Vogeltown, Melrose. (which explains his twin Iris Daphne Vogel Levy ?)

What information are they witholding from me? I wish they would tell you that they can't give any more information than was on the index BEFORE you go and pay the money for nothing!

Jack's mother was listed as Adela Amelia on her birth.  Why would just Amelia appear on her children's birth records? All the records I have found in Australia just list her as 'Adela' whith no mention of the Amelia.  She had four children to Ernest Cameron - I assaume that they would have been living together. I feel like Ernest was trying to hide something (his past?)

Aarrggg, this is frustrating!!

Thanks all of you for your help!

Loz

[Lucy2]

Hi Loz   

Yep, I share the ARRRGGGHH !!  ... with you !
(Along with the disgust I have for NZ BDM in the way they withhold info from these (historical) records) !

I actually can't believe that they (BMD), have now displayed all these historical records online "giving Mother's name and showing Father as N/R (not recorded)".    That is usually a dead giveaway, that these births were "out of wedlock".   SO, yes, what are BMD trying to hide ??
NZ BMD certainly need to get their act together ... (1) by offering this meagre info at a reduced cost  ... and (2) making it known, that if you apply for a printout such as this ("Father's name N/R"), then you can expect very limited info, as a result !

What information are they witholding from me?

Honestly can't answer that question  ... sorry.       [A while ago I applied for a similar-type printout - it came in the format of what BMD call a "white copy" ... i.e. limited information (for the mother and child) transcribed by BMD onto a piece of white computer paper (the variety with the holes punched in it) !   But  ... I didn't get the covering letter of explanation - BMD have only recently started doing that.]

Ah ... so Iris Daphne has an additional name (Vogel) ?
Vogeltown and Melrose are actually two different suburbs of Wellington ... and they are quite a distance apart ! (Separated by the suburbs of Island Bay to the South, or Berhampore to the North  .... and I always thought that Mornington (suburb) was the earlier name for what is now Vogeltown ?)    So that is jolly interesting !

*   Was there an actual street address given (for Vogeltown / Melrose) ? 

*   Is the informant's name given ?
                                       
                                            continued .... next post  ...

Lu
    

[Lucy2]

Jack's mother was listed as Adela Amelia on her birth. Why would just Amelia appear on her children's birth records?
All the records I have found in Australia just list her as 'Adela' whith no mention of the Amelia. She had four children to Ernest Cameron - I assaume that they would have been living together. I feel like Ernest was trying to hide something (his past?)

Hi Loz

Yes, have to agree now, that Ernest really does seem to have had "a past",  that he was endeavouring to keep hidden.   

And perhaps having Adela appear as "Amelia" on her children's birth records, may have been part of "a scheme" ??   (Note:   Adela's own birth is registered as "Adela Amelia" in the historical online index).

I've checked Wellington electoral rolls / directories  ... and a few "Ernest CAMERONs" have surfaced  ... but have managed to eliminate them (because later rolls show them at same address with a wife, or ... they include (later) a second christian name.)

There is one "Ernest CAMERON" though, I haven't totally discounted - he is recorded as a "foreman" living at Hanson Street (which now I think about it, is close to the border of the Vogeltown suburb)    So will have another look at that.

Lu

[lozzab]

Hi Lu,
Yes - this is a "white copy" - it a computer generated page.
States - first names - Jack Ernest Cameron
Surname - Levy
dob - 07/09/1905
Birhplace - Vogeltown Melrose

and then mother - Amelia Levy age 26, born Wellington.
No home address or any other details.
No details at all for father or parents relationship.

First Informant - Description Authorised Agent - E Heide, Vogeltown.

That's it!!!   (Interesting that Vogeltown and Melrose are not same place!)

I have got Iris' marriage certificate and it states on that her full name is"Iris Daphne Vogel Cameron".  How did they get married/died as 'Cameron" when their birth certificates had the surname LEVY on them???

I sent a letter to Phyllis' daughter last week, asking if she had any info.  She rang and left a message on my machine that she was going away for a week and she would ring again when she got back.  Also said that she didn't know much.  I'm hoping she may have some documents or something that may help!?

My mother said that she never imagined that they had never been married.  She knew her grandparents - but in those days people didn't talk about their pasts.

Thansk so much for your help LU 

[Lucy2]

Ernest's middle is "Hugh" on his wife's death cert (she died a number of years before him - and I figure this shoudl be correct as he would have provided the info for the death certificate??)
His middle name is "Howard" on his death cert. and is "Hyde" on his daughter's (Iris) marriage certificate.

First Informant - Description Authorised Agent - E Heide, Vogeltown.

Hi Loz   

Now I'm excited !!   

Can you see a "possible" connection with the "HYDE"  (on Iris's marriage cert.) ... and "E. HEIDE" (the "authorised agent" on Jack's birth record) ?

[HYDE  ... and ... HEIDE (which I would pronounce as "hide"].

"E. HEIDE"  ... is very possibly "Ernest"  ?

[So was that the surname he was "hiding" (HYDE-ing  -HEIDE-ing)  under ? ]     Sorry, couldn't resist that.   

OK  ... when I've got five minutes, will check those Wellington rolls again.

Lu

[lozzab]

Lu,

I hadn't even thought to connect that! You are good!!!!! Mmmmm - what the hell was he "heiding"??
So - do you think Cameron was his correct name and poss. just used Heide?  I don't know if it is worth my while ordering the other children's birth certificates - if they will only release as little as Jack's?

Loz

[Lucy2]

Mmmmm - what the hell was he "heiding"??

             Yeah, good question !   

I've also been sitting on this > >

Submitted entry from familysearch.org (LDS)  :

Sarah COULDREY - born: abt. 1834 - of Clevedon, Auckland, NZ

Marriage to:    Thomas HYDE - 1870 - Clevedon, Auckland

[On same LDS film is a birth for Thomas HYDE - born : 5 November 1832  .... died :  20 May 1911 : ]

Edit:   New info suggests above couple had only one son b. 1870 - Sarah appears to have died 1871.


Lu