Strange will

[Lady Di]

This is the first part of a so-called will from 1671 - well, TNA calls it a will, but it's the strangest beginning of a will I have ever seen.

Anyone know what it all means as it doesn't have the usual "in the name of God Amen etc" and it doesn't start with the usual 'last will and testement of...."

It does list all his children (all under 5 yrs old), and his wife and other family members including distribution of assets as normal and it does have probate details at the end.

Any suggestion or ideas on why it's "different"?

Thanks

Di

[Scatza]

Di,

I am curious as to how the name "John Crouch" is associated with this document, which to my eye reads "Coz. Cromch"   I see the name is also on the first line in a different hand or style. I was thinking that if the calligraphic 'm' (as I see it) is indeed an 'm', then what follows might be that he is pt. (patient) of m. ch. (the beginning of a medical degree - master of surgery, and ?bachelor of medicine???). Since one can't see the whole of the first line, this is just a nice mind exercise  Perhaps John Crouch was on his death bed and a lay person/medical recorded his wishes before a lawyer/writer or cleric could get there?

Megan

[Roger in Sussex]

Just a wild guess, but could it be that the first page of the original will was lost, and that the probate court accepted the remainder, as it was capable of being applied? Presumably in that case whatever was on the first page would have to be treated as intestate???

[JAP]

Roger,

I think you are spot on!

That is to say that only part of the Last Will & Testament has survived - but enough to show the Testator's wishes very clearly.

It seems that the scribe has made up a heading for the entry indicating whereabouts the surviving part starts i.e. at a line which includes
50^L ...  from Coz. Crowch ...

Coz. CROWCH is presumably a cousin of the Testator and is just one of the many people who owe money to the Testator.

And the fact that it is a Will is clearly shown in the last line which begins (I )
make my Executo^rs of this my Last Will and Testam^t ...

Presumably the Testator's name is given in the Probate details?

JAP

[Roger in Sussex]

JAP,

Presumably he would have had to sign it and have it witnessed at the end to make it probatable (is there such a word?), so his name could be deduced from that - maybe John Crouch ?

Roger

[Lady Di]

Di,

I am curious as to how the name "John Crouch" is associated with this document, which to my eye reads "Coz. Cromch"   I see the name is also on the first line in a different hand or style. I was thinking that if the calligraphic 'm' (as I see it) is indeed an 'm', then what follows might be that he is pt. (patient) of m. ch. (the beginning of a medical degree - master of surgery, and ?bachelor of medicine???). Since one can't see the whole of the first line, this is just a nice mind exercise  Perhaps John Crouch was on his death bed and a lay person/medical recorded his wishes before a lawyer/writer or cleric could get there?

Megan

Thanks for your help Megan,

What you see is all there is as far as the first and subsequent lines go apart from the name "John Crowch" is in the left hand column like most wills from TNA.

There are a few extra lines further down the page but those bit are "normal" will type bequests.

Just a wild guess, but could it be that the first page of the original will was lost, and that the probate court accepted the remainder, as it was capable of being applied? Presumably in that case whatever was on the first page would have to be treated as intestate???

Interesting comment Roger - didn't think about parts being missing. It certainly looks like it starts in the middle of a sentence but has been re transcribed with the only information they could find. That could be why the first line (as they saw it) was transcribed in larger font just to denote that it IS the first line (just like other wills)

Thanks JAP for your comments - yes the testator's name is in the probate details as well as on the left margin of the page (I just cut that off so it wasn't so wide on here) Apart from that, what you see is complete from line one down but there are a few more lines down before Probate details.

AND I have just noticed that he hasn't signed the "will" 

Thanks for all your comments and the fantastic powers of deduction on RC (not mine!!) I've been told that this is probably a nuncupative will.

I had to look this up on Investopedia and this is the description given:
"A verbal will that must have two witnesses and can only deal with the distribution of personal property. A nuncupative will is considered a "deathbed" will, meaning that it is a safety for people struck with a terminal illness and robbed of the ability or time to draft a proper written will. "

Cool     - you learn something new every day on RC - thanks everyone



Di