Looking up Heraldry or Coats of Arms on the Web

[Keith Sherwood]

Lesanne and David,
Certainly won't be trying to make a claim to the throne!  However, I have found a photocopied sheet (from which book, I'm afraid I've made no note) of a coat of arms that is exactly as described on the 1622 GURNER one, namely an engrailed cross gules (red cross with wavy edges!), and a cinquefoil  (5-leaved) emblem in the top left corner as you look at it.
Seems to belong to the GURNAY family from Norfolk, with a Francis GURNAY becoming a merchant in London.
There are dates for 1634 and 1635 on the short tree provided, although the name above the shield is spelled as GURNEY.  At the top of the page it says The Visitation of London p. 337. (Perhaps this exists on one of the pages on your earlier link, Lesanne)
Maybe there is some link between GURNEY's and GURNER's.
We've now written off to the College of Heralds, by the way, so should soon know our fate - or more likely our forebears!
keith

[behindthefrogs]

A few unrelated thoughts.

The French would pronounces Gurner as Gurney.  Many of these families are of Norman origin.

The cinquefoil would seem to be a difference applied to an earlier arms.  When it is applied in this way to both shield and crest it often indicates an unproven or weak link to the original family.  In this situation the cinquefoil could have been taken from the arms of the wife's family at the generation where that link occurs.

You describe the edge of the cross on the Gurney shield as being wavy.  This is of course significantly different engrailed which is a series of semicircles alongside each other.  Is this another difference showing another line of the family.

The wavy edge could be associated a second grandson and the engrailed edge with a third grandson if the arms had a Scottish origin.

The cross on the shield possibly implies a crusader ancestor.

David

[Lesanne]

   As a beginner in this era, makes this all so interesting. Please let us know their reply Keith.
         
Best wishes,  Lesanne.

[Keith Sherwood]

David,
You're obviously a bit of an expert, or simply very interested in the subject!  What you say raises all kind of exciting possibilities.  Maybe there is an obscure link from the grander GURNEY family through to my more humble GURNER's.  I had wondered about the significance of that extra gold cinquefoil.  I've studied several early wills for variations of the GURNEY name in East Anglia without turning any clues up so far.
But certainly there may be a clue somewhere through this (until now unconsidered) journey into heraldry.
I do have a large family tree of the GURNEY family drawn up by their family historian Hudson GURNEY in the 19thC, and I can see the branch alluded to in the 1633, 1634 visitation for GURNAY that I mentioned earlier.  Perhaps I should focus more precisely on that now.
And Lesanne, be sure that I'll let you know what the College of Heralds pronounce on the matter...
Regards, keith
N.B. The cross is definitely engrailed - "wavy" was just my inaccurate way of describing it.  When I looked again, it is in fact rows of semi-circles on the edges...

[Lesanne]

I expect you've seen this report..    How come you always get a picture....     

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_John_Gurney

Lesanne 

[DebbieG]

Hi

Just to confirm the connection with the arms quoted and the Norfolk Gurney family I checked in a dictionary of Hereldry I have and it gives
Johan de Gurney (time of Henry III)  bore, argent, a cross engrelee gules - source 'The Norfolk Roll'

 

DebbieG

[Ayashi]

You know, it's funny I should see this thread today... was only talking to someone last night about coats of arms... We've got a mounted coat of arms in our house- I'll have to ask where on earth it came from because from what has been said here, it might not even be ours!

[Keith Sherwood]

Lesanne,
The GURNEY family is well documented, and contains many famous people - a daughter of Earl Warren, who was married to Gundreda, daughter of William the Conqueror married into the line; so did an Anne , daughter of Sir Henry Haydon, cousin of Anne Boleyn.  Elisabeth FRY was of course born a GURNEY.
(I'll be lucky to get any pictures of these! - were you referring to my recent discovery of a Victorian Australian branch to my NOTT family, and the photos I've been posting from that new source on another thread...?)
And Debbie, I see the Sir John de GOURNAY that you refer to on the tree with a date of 1245 against his name.
Ayashi Foxtail, get that coat of arms in your house looked into immediately!  This is all quite fun, though I doubt I'll ever find a link between the GURNEY family and my own GURNER family quietly farming the land for 300 years or so in South Cambridgeshire...
keith

[Ayashi]

It came from the House of Heraldry Limited in Hertfordshire. Must be 1980 onwards because it has my maternal and paternal surnames side by side... Will have to ask mum when she turns up.